Some people say 06, some say 08, some say 04. I say "Sonic Adventure 3" has joined the ranks of words/phrases that have lost all meaning from overuse, like "Mary Sue" and "fascist".
Zelda games, particularly those of the original top-down style, are arguably the quintessential "Adventure" games. In that sense, Sonic's been taking cues from that series since Sonic 'Adventure'. If it's taking further cues from Breath of the Wild, that's only natural. Games copy other games. Art imitates art. That's a universal constant. That's how genres and stylistic trends/movements come about in the first place. It's not some naughty thing.
Definitely. I'm seeing a lot of people who are not into Sonic being pretty intrigued with Frontiers. The fact that they showed it in TGA and that the SEGA official account seems to be pushing it that early makes me think they are pretty confident in it and they want us to talk about it. The thing I got from this trailer is that SEGA seems to be pushing this game out to appeal to just not Sonic fans, but the more general gaming public by going out big and open world.
I personally don't get the people who insist hubs are an inherent requirement for the Adventure game formula. There were officially only ever 2 Adventure games, and only one of them had hubs- the other had a map with a level select. I'm also a person who has typically never liked the hubs in Sonic games -except- for Adventure 1. I also do not get people who insist a "dark tone" is a requirement, because SA1 was a lot less melodramatic than SA2 until the Super Sonic Story. The older I get the more nebulous the concept of a "Adventure formula" game is because the two games that 'shared' the formula only have Treasure Hunting, Mech Shooting, the Chao Garden and Sonic/Shadow's Action stages in common. And I never want to see three of those four things again, because to me, they represent the worst aspects of those games in retrospect. So ultimately, if all Frontiers has in common with the Adventure world is a big 'hub' area where you get to use Sonic's abilities to get to new levels ala SA1 and Unleashed, then I hope it's designed well and fun to traverse, because I for one did not like Unleashed's hub- it felt too small, cramped, and cumbersome. The medal-requirement that locked progression behind replaying stages and finding collectibles only made the experience that much worse.
I don't know if anyone had pointed this out, but there was a pole from the official Sonic the Hedgehog account back in 2018 asking which future people would like to see in future games: https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/991383566545108993?s=21 The fact that Sachiko Kawamura, the person behind Chao Gardens and such, is being the producer of this game (I believe the first time as such) does sure mean something, to say the very least. I do think a Chao Garden could be very well implemented in an open world Sonic. Imagine multiple "Chao Springs" scattered around the area, each own unique Chao types and such. Putting those blue blobs could incentivize exploration and replayablilty. But alas, I'm just putting up my tinfoil hat only to be met with sheer disappointment...
It feels overbearing at this point. You could argue Sonic Adventure was taking a lot from Ocarina of Time, and obviously RPGs from the time because of it's cohesive world, but it makes sure to add combine a bunch of other influences to create a very unique Sonic-y flavor to the point where you could hardly even guess it's taking from those things. Sonic 06 I think went too far in and lost the Sonic, and Frontiers seems to lack an identity of its own even to the point where it's lifting the giants and magitech from Breath of the Wild. It seems like we're running into the exact same issue we did in the 2000s where Sonic is just afraid to be himself and feels the need to be blatantly derivative of other things.
It didn't ask anything about future games. It was just just a simple question about favourite features. I think that if SEGA wanted to do some research about the benefits of adding in a feature as resource intensive as Chao Gardens, they wouldn't weigh it up against something as basic Time Attack mode.
I think it's still too early to tell if this game will fail to adequately give a Sonic-y spin on Breath of the Wild, given the lack of any gameplay footage. Over a year ago I posted in a different thread how natural I think Sonic gameplay and Breath of the Wild would go together: My musings of course hinge on the programmers and designers being interested in adding slope physics, rolling, and the like, back into Sonic's moveset, and on them being capable of pulling it off. That remains to be seen, and I'm definitely not optimistic for that. I'm hoping though! Though, if you meant "Sonic-y" in more a visual sense, idk. Adventure seemed a farcry from the more surreal stuff before it, so I'd be hard-pressed to say "Sonic-y" even captures a single visual direction.
I don't think Kawamura being producer has any implication for a Chao garden whatsoever. She's not exactly a nobody, she's been art director since Sonic Unleashed. This is just her first role as producer, but if she wanted to bring the Chao garden in I reckon she would have pushed for it ages ago. It's not like she's appeared out of nowhere and can single handedly demand the Chao garden. That's not to say I don't think she cares about Chao, she did design them after all, as well as the garden. But if the Chao garden comes back it will be because Sonic Team as a whole want it back, not the producer pushing for it. That said, I am happy with Kawamura as producer. It'll be interesting to see how she compares to Iizuka at any rate, I think she at least has a very good track record as an art director, even though some didn't like the aesthetic of Lost World and Forces. I think the most intriguing takeaway is that Iizuka doesn't seem to have an active role in the game development, unless if he's decided to work on the design or something. This is going into conspiracy land but i wonder if he's thinking of retiring or moving on to a different project. Pretty striking that he's no longer producer after being so for every single game since Colors.
I still say they should've gone in something more akin to this direction for Sonic Adventure, and I will die on this hill. But hey, even in the final game, I think you can see some remnants of that old-school Sonic style (or to be more specific, Sonic 3&K's proto-3D style), especially in action stages like Windy Valley or Red Mountain. And it's important to remember that back then, the third dimension was fresh enough, and developers were pushing the tech so hard anyway, that "3D" alone could qualify as an artstyle. Mario Kart 64 isn't very "Mario-y" at all compared to both its predecessor AND successors. The most important thing to me is that Sonic's world should have at least SOME dreamlike surreal quality to it. I don't want to be running around in a place that could really exist, especially not the Windows XP background.
Frontiers isn't anywhere close to Adventure because there's no chao garden I think people here really underestimate how important the chao are to the Adventure games. It is literally impossible to ever discuss Sonic everywhere without fifty people going "why did they never make a new chao garden". Every single discussion on Sonic in normal gaming circles is filled to the brim with it. I would rank them as one of the most important things defining the Adventure duology as multiple playable characters or gameplay styles. Shit, I'd probably rank them as my second most important element behind "slower fully-3D platforming gameplay with a momentum engine" (the most important element). The gardens are just objectively the most well-regarded elements of any 3D Sonic game outside of the core gameplay mechanics themselves (and even then, I'd say they they probably still more highly regarded lol given how people slag on SA1's controls and camera or how the boost gameplay isn't universally liked!). Personally to me they are a massive important element of Sonic and every game post-SA2 has never really felt like a true "Sonic" game (outside Mania, a 2D game that obviously has different expectations) because of their lack, but at the very least, Frontiers is bringing other elements rather than just the same old boost gameplay. But seriously if Kawamura brings them back I'm buying like 50 copies of this game even if it's an 06-tier trash fire or even worse
Interesting to see some say SA1 took some from Ocarina of Time. SA1 came out a month after OoT, so it would have been difficult to really take much from it in the late 90's, I'd think. I'd love to hear what the team was looking at back then. Could've been Oot, but I dunno. To me this comes off as the American side trying to convince someone higher-up to go for it and hoping to have numbers to back them up. Either way. I love Chao. Used to run and help others run Chao forums and sites in the late 2000's. But looking at how it went the last time Sonic Team tackled the idea (NiGHTS Journey of Dreams)...I might be good. I'd really rather them focus on nailing whatever new direction they're trying for Sonic first, and then focus on things like Chao later. Honestly, I'd much rather see Chao separated out to their own little spin-off thing or so at this point altogether, but if that was a viable idea in this day and age it surely would have happened by now. Ah well.
Chao Gardens were actually really rather shit in terms of gameplay. You just grinded out shit levels for rings, animals and drives, took them to your Chao and waited. And waited. And waited... So dry. But people loved them. I loved them as a child and teenager too. Now though, i just can't stand them. That said, Frontiers is arguably a great place for them in theory. A huge open world or "open zone" environment where you can raise Chao and take them along on your adventure? That sounds like it's got potential. Raise the guys as you play the game and have the accompanying you at the same time. You could provide them with whatever resources they needed as you found them, and they could provide you with buffs in return. Even if they don't provide buffs, I can see people loving the idea of taking their Chao with them. It's not like SEGA didn't already float this idea in some way with Cream. That's a million times better than "replay Speed Highway 500 times so you can get enough kangaroos to make a raceway decent Chao for a race that you get to spectate".
I think the Chao gardens were fun as an optional side quest from a game in the early 2000s. But as @Blue Blood has said, they don't hold up to today's standards. And to be honest, I disagree with @Frostav. The only time I ever hear anyone talk about the Chao gardens are from Adventure fans. I really don't think the average 'gamer' cares at all.
Chao Gardens are a fun little time waster, more so when you're a kid and you have all the free time in the world. As much as I love Adventure as-is, whenever I see these images I always think about the alternate reality where we actually got that version. It also makes me realize something. Modern Sonic's design kind of works a lot better when placed in urban city environments. He basically looks like graffiti-art that came to life. That's the impression I get at least.
Can't say I agree. If anything, I'd say the grinding is one of the most "modern" aspects of Chao raising. Pretty much every game has some form of grinding these days. Even Sonic games, Chao Gardens or no Chao Gardens. Unleashed has you grinding for XP and rings, Generations for points for skills and unlockables, Forces for clothing items, etc. I never minded the grinding when raising Chao, as the Sonic/Shadow levels were pretty fun. Giving me a reason to replay them while making progress made it all the better. Level replayability has always been Sonic's bread and butter, people do it for things like time trials and ranks anyway. In SA2, I would just grab the animal/drives while doing the side missions. As for waiting, I'm pretty sure you didn't need to do a lot of it if you were only raising Chao for races/karate. There was no cap as to how many animals/drives you could give them at once. You could just pop into the garden, given them all your animals/drives and leave. Admittedly, there was a lot of waiting if you wanted your Chao to grow up. Getting a Chaos Chao took forever.
I think the Chao Garden feeds quite well into the larger gameplay loop. It provides more incentive to replay stages, and gives something to do with all of those Rings you accumulate. Also adds a gameplay twist to the animals you've been saving from robots and capsules since the first game. I agree that it's definitely too much "waiting", though. I killed 2 GameCube lasers by leaving them on for several days at a time just to expedite the aging process. A modern take would definitely require some streamlining, but no way would I trust Sonic Team to do it appropriately. So, I can't say I'd be excited to see them back in Frontiers.
plot-twist: Starfall Island is actually the "faraway forest" your chao got banished to if you said good-bye to them you'll be seeing them again very soon
