Sonic Colo(u)rs Ultimate released for Switch, Xbox One, PlayStation 4, and Epic Games Store

Not once have I argued against people thinking it's silly to compare "the amount of 3D" in Colours to "the amount of 2D" in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I completely understand that - in fact, I agree. That's not my argument.

I'm saying we've already had the discussion that it's silly to use this as a metric for the quality of a game, and that when you've already been shown that it's a silly metric to use it's silly to continue using it.

I'm also saying that I've never once claimed that Sonic 3 doesn't have enough 3D, or is a 3D game, and this is a ridiculous thing to claim I've said, let alone apparently hinged an argument on.

 

I kind of do. Mainly because critics, the fandom and the gaming community insisted on drilling into my head that Colors was "TEH FRIST GOOD 3D SONIC GAEM ZOMG!!!1!!1" before I played it. So when I got around to trying it and found out that this "amazing" "3d game" was mostly 2d, I felt shortchanged. Talk about false advertising

 

I think it's interesting that when I originally played it back when it first came out, it didn't even occur to me that I was playing mostly 2D sections. It wasn't until several years later that the "mostly 2D" complaint brought this to my attention. I guess I had too much fun to really notice.

It's also funny because I've always told myself I'm a bigger 3D Sonic fan than a 2D Sonic fan, which might not be true lol.

Regarding the drama earlier in the thread, I have no stake in it, and I have no idea who's side I'm supporting by saying this. Just giving my two cents.

I think a good sign that someone isn't a Sonic fan is them saying something like this. Pretty sure almost everyone here can agree fun 3D Sonic games didn't start with Colors.

EDIT: Sorry about the double posting, I'll consolidate my posts into one from now on lol

 

Someone's status as a Sonic fan isn't defined by them liking Sonic Adventure. Someone can have only played Sonic Forces and still be a Sonic fan.

On the topic of Colors having too much 2D, I think it and Generations do have too much 2D. I still enjoy the games for what they are though, despite their many flaws.

If we got a game like Generations which was entirely 3D I would be happier. Provided we still get games like Mania of course.

 

Even Sonic does this. Sega were rereleasing SA1 and 2 at the same time they were making boost games. Didn't mean they were going back to the adventure formula any time soon. (No matter how much I may dream for it)

 

Also, to respond to this point, people have different tastes. I don't care for driving games, but I respect the GT and Forza are good game series. Wouldn't want to play it though.

Someone can respect 2D gameplay and still not want to play it. I do have an affection for 3D platformers, even though I like 2D ones, and I wish there were more 3D platformers as an example.

 

Some people like more 2D in their 3D Sonic. Some people don't. Can we just leave it at that? I cannot see anybody changing their mind on this based on a post someone here makes on the matter and we've had discussions to this effect more times than I care to remember in the last year alone. It's extremely tiring to see the same old positions trotted out time after time.

 

These were your own words. You mentioned the 3D gameplay in S3 and K, like it was a 3D platformer and was expected to be played in 3D when it's not.

How old are you? My mention of how much 3D Sonic Colors has was because I was curious how much it had in comparison to Forces or Generations. Someone made a video where they clipped out the 2D sections for Forces before and it ended up being 15 minutes of 3D.

I wasn't talking about how long each game took to beat, and if it took that direction it's because your responses goaded me in that direction. I didn't bring up S3 and K in the first place so to make that a part of your argument is really quite weird at all. If you weren't bringing up S3 and K to compare the amount of 2D vs 3D in that game as well then I don't know why you brought it up in the first place. Which, by your own words, you clearly were.

Nothing about Sonic 3 and Knuckles length to completion changes that Sonic Colors only has 22 minutes of 3D gameplay when the game takes 2-3 hours to beat. I don't see how you still don't get that now, or why you're so petty you went and found the conversation logs (like I didn't go back and read what I said and mentioned what I was trying to accomplish with my words that you ignored for your point that still is completely irrelevant). Grow up.

 

Assuming this will lead to something, if the title of the game is actually "Sonic Colors Ultimate" (as seen on this archive of sogamely's website), I could see it having some type of extra features.

Consider Sonic Adventure DX which added the Game Gear games, Mission Mode and Metal Sonic; and Sonic Adventure 2: Battle which overhauled the multiplayer, giving each extra character unique attributes. Those can be contrasted with the more straightforward ports of Sonic Adventure DX and Sonic Adventure 2: Battle to 7th generation consoles and Lost World to PC which didn't have any extra words in their game titles and didn't add any new stuff really. So I guess I'm a bit optimistic on that front if the subtitle is true (and if the game itself even actually exists), but I'm not even sure what they would do besides maybe consolidating the "main" acts that were split and making them the only mandatory ones (though the only "mission" acts I'm particularly sour on are Sweet Mountain 4 (the one with the slow rising platforms toward the end) and the first autoscroller / yellow spring level in Starlight Carnival). Whatever the case is though, I'm glad that the game will potentially be made a bit more accessible.

Sonic Simulator is one of those things that I think has a cool concept but really really falls flat in its execution. I don't mind that the levels are remixed versions of old ones; with the name of the mode and how many people caught onto the Sonic 1 stage revisits, I don't think it's something they were actively trying to hide. I also enjoy the idea of the special stages being similar to the main gameplay. But for several reasons, mainly the weirdly slow automation and how barren the levels can feel of obstacles or enemies sometimes, it feels very much like the least polished thing in the whole game imo. I'd love to see it get some updates to at least make the multiplayer more fun, but I highly doubt they'd touch the mode.

 

This is true of course, but I never said they weren't a Sonic fan if they didn't like Adventure 1. I just said it was a strong indication if they said there weren't any good 3D games until Colors. Everyone's got their own valid opinions but at the end of the day, it's very unusual for anyone, who claims they like Sonic, to essentially say that the entire 3D franchise is trash.

 

I think we covered like, 5 pages ago that being majority 2D isn't a bad thing... especially because SEGA advertised the game as such. There was honestly a lot to like about the 2D sections, despite being a bit "blocky" and slow.

Game Land had some pretty fun 2D in itself, I remember spending a lot of time there and wishing SEGA would make a completely 2D game again

Now this would be cool. That "Ultimate" in the title does sound a bit better than "Sonic Colors Rerun" or "Sonic Colors HD". It's hard to think of what they could add though, other than maybe putting in a museum/collection or adding a little to the multiplayer mode.

Okay.

 

It actually can be a problem if the gameplay focus and pacing is substantially different with those 2D to 3D segments, on top of the dimensional ratio being unbalanced. Colors has a clear focus in prioritizing the Boost-lite action for its 3D segments and saving the Wisp-centric puzzles / precision platforming for the 2D segments. There are elements where you have Boost action in 2D and some puzzle / precision platforming stuff in 3D; but those I'd say are exceptions in the game, rather than the rule.

Contrast that with Unleashed where the focus to keep moving quickly remains in the side-scrolling segments; you're still expected to constantly boost through enemies, reflexively dodge or circumvent obstacles that slow you down, and perform QTEs in 2D as you do in 3D, so the gameplay focus is more consistent throughout the levels compared to Colors (and that's in addition to the side-scrolling segments in general being less common compared to Colors). Or for another example, Super Mario Odyssey. That game's 2D segments where you're changed into "Classic Mario" as he is in SMB1; your controls/abilities and the level design are substantially basic; much more than the 2D segments/levels in Colors. But they're short segments in otherwise fully 3D stages. Moreover, due to the sandbox structure of the levels, many (though not all) of those 2D segments are of an optional nature, since they are saved for completing or finding smaller specific goals/moons that are secondary to your broader progress through the main campaign.

 

Sounds like a good reason to use Super Sonic, but not to unlock him, just like people says Secret Rings is fun when you unlock everything, but you have to play the game to unlock everything first.

Now seriously, was Super Sonic that bad in Colours? Because it was pretty useless in Generations, some skill combos felt more powerful than just choosing Super Sonic alone.

 

Super Sonic is a fun novelty but pretty shit overall. He can't double jump, so underwater it's like classic Sonic where you're down there til you find a way out because you're not infinite jumping out. You can't use wisps at all, even when not Super (Super is a toggled option). Plus the levels are short, so in many instances you barely if ever get to use him at all, which could be remedied if you could use him in Egg Shuttle but you can't.

Oh 3D Super implementation. Each game fucks up something royal in it's implementation buy it's oddly never broken in the same way. In Generations boosting auto pilots you, goes through your rings like nothing, and you can't slide while boosting so it's clunky. In Lost World, oddly gameplay wise they nailed it (in the sense that it didn't break what Lost World set up for regular Sonic not that it was necessarily good), but the model is broken and you have two mouths, and in Forces, again works fine and this time looks fine but you don't get to activate it yourself it just happens when you get 50 rings. Oh and who could forget they tried to charge you $2 for the privilege. Like how? How have they not got it yet?

 

Nah, it was ok, but... Kinda random. I just think that if the game is called "Sonic Colours Ultimate", we should get some extra content, like a Nega Wisp Mother secret boss fight. Could be fun and hey! It's extra content.

But we probably would get nothing extra. Remaster in 60 FPS and 1080p, maybe 4K on PS5 and XSX.

As for that 3D Vs 2D debacle, I remember 2D controls in Colours being a bit sloppy.

 

Perhaps the 3D vs 2D argument deserves it's own thread, but regarding it's implementation in Colors, could it be that a lot of the argument stems from the fact that the levels were split up and a majority of the acts are what would have originally been the "challenge levels"? I played through the Tropic Resort Reboosted mod recently and it was surprising how well-paced and balanced it felt between 3D and 2D gameplay.

If we're going to consider the game predominantly 2D because of the challenge levels that were repurposed, the same might be said for Unleashed with its multiple challenge levels that were also mostly in 2D. It's a bit disingenuous to make the statement in my opinion.

 

Super Sonic still has the infinite double jump underwater. On land, his normal jump is the double jump height, but yeah he can't double jump there.

I don't know, I always thought Super Sonic was a pretty fun bonus in this game. Despite it being a boost game where Sonic already has instant super speed, Super Sonic still feels a lot faster than Sonic, especially in comparison to his implementations in Generations, Lost World (Wii U/PC version, at least), and Forces. He also has unique behavior with certain gimmicks (trick ramp only needs one button press) that made it feel like they wanted him to really be a special bonus. I think he's most fun to play in the "main" acts though. Pretty much my only issues with him were that he couldn't use Wisps and that the music loop is wayyy too short.

Oh yeah that does remind me: the DS version does unlock concept art as you collect red rings. Something like that could be a neat bonus.

 

I think the difference is, Unleashed doesn't force you to do the extra challenges.

 

While that may be true, does it make it any less a game with "2D levels" in it? While implementation might be different, I'd say both games have comparable amounts of 2D vs 3D. If you're going to call Colors a "mostly 2D game", you honestly should say the same about Unleashed. I can agree, the implementation of stages in Colors was less than ideal in this regard, but if you're going to criticize it, criticize the actual problem.

This is honestly why I hope that if this is released, someone will mod levels back into their original order and combine what shouldn't have been broken up in the first place.