"Multiple" new Sonic games planned for 2021

This is more or less how I feel, and you summed it up perfectly, thank you.

I dunno, I just think people could stand to be more open minded about Sonic. Some of y'all are so set in your ways, that you refuse to accept anything else.

I like Classic and I like Modern, I don't know why I gotta pick a side or be labeled as one or the other :///

 

Laura's opinion on the 4 bigtime classic games is actually quite similar to mine though I'd go even further on S3&K and say that like 70-80% of that game is just...not fun, holy shit. Marble Garden, Casino Night, Sandopolis are just absolutely, actually awful, and the rest of the levels are mostly super bloated and not amazing. Mania is leaps and bounds better in terms of flow and level design. I for one don't hate playing half of it, and even then Flying Battery and Lava Reef are blah things I have to put up with to get to the fun levels. Hydrocity act 2 is okay but 1 is plodding and slow. Mania's levels are built around far higher speed and speedrunning flow than S3&K's and as someone likes Sonic as a speedrun game I jive with how it flows much better. Acts like CPZ2 and all of Studiopolis are head and shoulders above anything in the Genesis trilogy, IMO.

Sacrilege around these parts, I know.

 

It's literally the exact opposite for me. Sonic 1 and 2 are filled with boring slow levels, making up 50% of the former (feels like more since they last longer than the speedy levels) and over half of the latter, and the good levels are too short. This is also true for the 3d games -- they tend to have crappy levels like treasure hunting or the Werehog, and the fun speedy levels aren't numerous or long enough to make up for them. Whereas S3K (and Mania) is the one Sonic game where I can enjoy even the worst levels.

I dread going through stages like Marble Zone, Labyrinth Zone, Hill Top or Oil Ocean. On the other hand, S3K's "slow" levels like Marble Garden, Lava Reef or Death Egg have enough variety and speedy sections to break up the monotony, and as a result these zones serve as a nice change of pace, rather than something that puts me off replaying the game.

Mania's Flying Battery was blah for you? Ironically, it's my favorite Mania zone. The second act's stormy sections were one of the most exhilarating experiences I've had in a classic-style Sonic game.

 

yeah, I'm in the same boat here. I like the first two adventure games even as I have problems especially with the tone of SA2 - and I'm planning on buying the PC versions so I can mod them to raise more Chao and have more Chao-related features, a thing I would not do if I didn't enjoy actually playing the games to begin with. But the Classic games and Mania, and especially fan- and official-remakes of them, make me happy. As soon as I found out AIR was done I immediately spent the next three days beating the game in as many ways as I could come up with, and I had a ton of fun with it.

And, like, they're also the games I'd show other people if I wanted to try to express why I like this weird, janky series so much. I literally linked my roommate to Sonic 3 AIR and gave him an official ROM I have from Steam because I want to have a shot at other people "getting" why this series has endured and why I will occasionally infodump about protos and such. I can't in good faith do that with either of the adventure games, or, honestly, any games that came after them either (having played some Generations and still feeling that it's just "okay") save for Mania.

And Mania being actually fun without really having to fall all over yourself going "well it's kind of janky and ass here here and here but I promise you this game has good parts" is why people who weren't Sonic fans were also all over that game. You don't have to try to paper over serious, fun-destroying problems that most other Sonic games have post-S3&K, that at this point the series is known for, to enjoy it.

 

Might as well throw my two cents in, even if they predominantly echo what's been said and said and said again... The Classics are the classics not simply because they're beginning to approach their respective thirty year marks, but because with the possible exception of CD they are darn-near universally regarded as brilliant games. Sonic 1, 2, and 3K aren't just a blast to play, but gorgeous to watch, and stunning to the ears. Pick you preferred OST for CD and you can probably say the same.

I adore Sonic Adventure, and to a lesser degree the sequel. You can't really call them classics though. The gameplay is not universally praised like the Mega Drive titles. The art direction is not gorgeous to the eyes of the majority. The music, while still mostly good, is not up to the same standard of quality as the classics. Most of us here still love those games though, at least the originals for the Dreamcast... but unlike the Genesis, not everyone even knew about the DC, let alone owned one. Perhaps if the series had stalled there for a bit, even with the wonky controls and tonally different score, then they may have retroactively been hailed as second wave classics. Unfortunately Sega shot themselves in the face and put out the mediocre Heroes, and the absolute garbage of 06. Unleashed was alright, and Generations was good. Heck, I actually enjoy Forces, but I won't call it a good game.

Mania is the best thing the series has gotten since the Dreamcast, but it wasn't made in-house. It is pretty understandble that Sega/Sonic Team would want to create some safe distance from it because they themselves cannot replicate its success. If any portion of these rumours are true, I truly hope it is the notion that they finally realised they need to scrap the Boost formula and retreat back to another proven formula that appeased the majority of Sonic's built in fanbase: 3D platforming ala Sonic Adventure. Same applies, albeit to a much lesser extent, regarding 2D titles, as most of us seem to agree that the first Advance was pretty good and that Rush was also pretty good. If they can do those two styles justice again, then they may just breath some new life into the franchise that doesn't have to rely on nostalgia.

 

"Boost Era" is a great term for 2008-2012. 2013-2019 saw one boost game, and it was arguably the worst boost game. I vote we call those years (2013-2019) the "Mania Era" because that was the one (widely-agreed to be) great game from that era.

I know some people will object to that because "SEGA has been using Mania as a crutch since 2018." Um, yeah? Would you rather they used Forces? Lost World? Boom? Mania was the most critically well-received Sonic game since Generations. SEGA is a company. They need to make money. Some people might be tired of the treatment Mania has received (Plus DLC, Adventures shorts, etc.), and that's fine if you are, but it makes perfect business sense for them to promote it the way they have. Now, I would also argue that making a Mania 2 (or whatever it would be called) would be a great business decision. Just because it might not come this year doesn't mean it couldn't come in, say, 2023. (If anything, I would prefer that, because then we wouldn't have to wait 5 years for anniversaries to get new mainline games.) I can't believe that SEGA doesn't see that and that they think that having a Classic Sonic branch of the franchise to do whatever with is a bad idea.

That said, if they want to give the Modern branch some special focus this anniversary (and this IS the 20th anniversary of Sonic Adventure 2), I'm cool with that (not that I think this rumor sounded super believable to me, because it didn't). But there's no way SEGA is done with Classic Sonic.

 

Never understood this era-fandom thing, is it just that hard to accept that the classic games are universally acclaimed and everything after ranges from great-awful? Its fine to like the Adventure games and the boost games, but to act like classic fans or modern fans or whatever are "out of touch" or have really bad opinions all along is just kind of condescending. I say this as someone who really likes some of the 3D games. I was born after the classics but I really do appreciate them for what they are (I vastly prefer them over 2D Mario games and definitely see how Sonic got his place in videogames in the 90s) and I don't prefer any sort of "era" of Sonic. I would definitely not mind a return to the Adventure gameplay style for 3D, as its a formula thats been kind of abandoned for a while and I think it had potential to be the perfect 3D Sonic formula. I also hope SEGA goes back to just focusing on one Sonic - THE Sonic, and not this Classic/Modern split. Just focus on one thing and get it done right.

Im usually not one to post here (I've lurked here since before I made an account, starting with Unleashed's release at a minimum) but reading through on all this is making my head spin.

 

Hm, I was being a bit harsh on it. I think it's a bit too long--there's a reason people constantly talked about time overing in there so much upon release--but you're right, the stormy sections are very fun and I do like the gimmicks such as the spinning pillars that the Act 2 boss later utilizes and those things that swing you around in an arc on the outside of the ship.

It's just that inside the zone feels super cramped and rather start-stop. I prefer the more outdoor zones--or at least the zones where you aren't hemmed in by walls and ceilings so much. Green Hill, Chemical Plant, etc. I think Press Garden's second act is better than the first for the same reason--first one has you boxed in way too often. That's why I don't like Marble Garden, it's just constant annoying start-stop gameplay, you are nearly always boxed in, and the zig-zag way it's laid out combined with the gimmicks like the spinning tops make me feel like I'm going in circles until I somehow get to the end. Carnival Night is the same way except it's much more broadly linear in layout. I'm not a fan of zones that make you stop to interact with the gimmicks like Marble Garden does either. Making platforms rise by stopping and spindashing a blue wheel or getting on a weirdly-controlling top is a flow-killer. Ironically I love a lot of Carnival Night's gimmicks, lol, I just don't like the actual layout of the zone (or its music).

To me a good Sonic level shouldn't make you stop dead too often. It should be an obstacle course of multiple interconnected routes that, with enough skill and level knowledge, allows for going through it in one long uninterrupted "combo" of perfectly timed jumps and rolls. I basically only ever play as Sonic for that reason because I find Knux and Tail' special abilities too flow-less for that reason. This is a pretty controversial opinion, I know.

...but given that SA2 was my first Sonic game and the Sonic/Shadow stages are built exactly like that, you can guess why I hold that opinion. It's also why I like stuff like Sonic GT so much--I already play Sonic games to speedrun them and ignore the exploratory elements so making the entire game like that is totally my jam. For the record, I think the Boost games take that idea and make it so much a focus they boil the stages down into QTE's where you can't have any fun with the physics and feel too on-rails, so I'm not as much of a fan of them, but I still grinded S-ranks in Forces so...

SO YEAH, bringing it back to the leak in question, that's why I'd be down for what Sonic Team is apparently putting up. I'd like my 3D Sonic games to have physics, to feel like you can mess around and have fun, to not just feel like a bunch of arbitrary QTE's. SA1 and SA2 had the physics mostly down, but the levels were a bit too constrained. Doing that again but with better level design? I'd be pretty interested in that, my reservations about Sonic Team's ability to actually do it notwithstanding.

 

So...

Yeah I basically just agree with what everyone way up there said about how they feel about the classic and newer games. Sonic is just sonic to me, I like virtually everything, so I'm not gonna pick sides- imma just have a good time, you know? :D

 

Would you say the same of the last half a decade of Sonic? Imagine you're in the beginning 2016 and the whole shebang got leaked. "Oh, we're getting a brand new classic styled game from Taxman & Stealth, and it's getting a free update, and Classic Sonic is going to appear in the next 3D game, AND theres gonna be a set of animated internet shorts featuring him, AANNDD he gets an IDW spinoff and a Lego set!" Sounds like a Classic fans christmas list to me, many people would be doubting it.

 

I also want to point out that it sounding like an adventure fan's Christmas list is what apparently makes it fake. Would it be assumed to be fake if it was a boost fan's Christmas list? :v

 

I do wonder if right after Forces is a bad time to do it. I imagine if they announce Adventure 3 or Adventure Remake or whatever now, even before it's released, there will be a lot of cries of "So you tried to do something new with Lost World and it sucked, then you tried to run back to boost with Forces and ruined that, and now you're gonna ruin Adventure, too?"

 

If SA3 got announced, you'll only hear that from hardcore fans that are too jaded to be happy. Most of the crowd will be singing Escape from the City too loud for you to hear yourself think. lmao

 

As a fan of classic Sonic who also enjoys some new offerings such as Colors and Generations, I find it so messed up to see that the fandom is divided.

We literally had 20+ years of bad 3D Sonic games. Mania comes out and sells great, and fans of the 3D games are now jealous of its success?

Sega of Japan is apparently also jealous of its success and feels they can make a better game, despite failing to make consistently good Sonic games for decades.

I've said it before on here years ago, why can't Sega take a Mario approach and continually have a 2D series (New Super Mario Bros) in addition to their 3D series (Mario Odyssey). Both lines sell well and some people just want 2D or 3D.

Sega of Japan has had many opportunities to make great 3D games, and while some are more tolerable than others, they have shown they don't understand quality or consistency. Sega of Japan just keeps trying random things with Sonic and it's awful for the series.

At least continue the 2D Classic Sonic games to keep the core of the series alive.

 

Erm, for the start of 2016, the whole "shebang" would had only been Mania, Classic Sonic in Forces, and Archie's Mega Drive miniseries. The rumor's only focusing on what may be announced for just this one year; but your list is including Classic Sonic projects that didn't even exist by that point. Some of those couldn't even be reasonably conceptualized to become a thing by the dawn of that year.

 

I don't think he cared about dates, it was the principle of his point, which to be fair, I did agree with to some extent. If a rumor were to drop for classic stuff, the fanbase would essentially say "you adventure fans better be excited or else", and if an adventure rumor came out, they'd act like "you're not allowed to be excited for this". Yes, I've witnessed this firsthand :p

 

If we have to draw a comparison, I think the better place to do it would be ten years ago, not five.

In early 2011, in the wake of Sonic 4, "bring back Classic Sonic YOU COWARDS" had reached a fever pitch. The fandom zeitgeist had been begging for it for years, but as much as I wanted it, I'd sort of come to accept that Sega would never actually listen. If you'd told me then, "Oh yeah, they're gonna do it, and he's gonna have his own stages and be his own THING totally separate from modern," I mean... I'd have been hopeful, but it would've sounded WAY too much like my exact wish list to be believable. I'd have probably wondered if someone was trying to play a prank on us. And, uh... yeah, when Generations was revealed, my jaw was on the floor. It was a dream come true.

Similarly, this rumor is full of the exact sort of talking points that fans have been throwing around for a few years, now. It would indicate that Sega is once again overhauling the series based on the most vocal contingent. And while on the one hand, I agree that it looks TOO much like a laundry list addressing their complaints to be true, the fact of the matter is that they've done it before.

 

I think the leak doesn't sound likr a dream come true at all for me. I mean a return to something like an Adventure style is great, but that 2D news is fucking awful. Jealous of the Mania team? Sceptical of Classic Sonic as overdone? The fact that Sega of America has this view when we all thought they were more reasonable than Japan! It's going to be hysterical if this is true and Iizuka, who a lot of people present as a talentless hack, is one of the few people involved in Sonic who is open minded enough to give people like Team Mania a chance.

The new Sonic collection also sounds very realistic. No Taxman Sonic 1 and 2. No Sonic 3.

Honestly I don't understand why people are calling this leak too dreamy to be true. It's not even SA3 but just a return to something like Adventure gameplay.

 

Oh, I agree and then some. While any new game has the potential to be fantastic, and I'm glad if Sonic Team has some new blood, there's not much in here that I'd have asked for. (Well, unless the collection is on the level of a "Sonic Jam 2," and we get a Rush revival scored by Hideki Naganuma, anyway. That'd be fun. )

But what I'm saying is that it contains sometimes word-for-word descriptions of EXACTLY what other fans have been asking for. I've seen so many people, especially on Twitter, describe it as "too good to be true."