The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Oh, my apologies. My intention was not rude, just annoyance at SEGA and sarcasm at how well they're handling the burning mess they've created.

Indeed, the problem is the developing process. Again, can not fathom for the life of me how to create. Ideas, I've got plenty of. Creating them, I can doodle and that's about the extent of that skill. I'm looking at Unity, there's apparently a free version but there's stipulations behind it that I'm not sure I apply for.

Still, let's move away from Iizuka's continuity. What do we have on Naka continuity? Like, has there been a case where someone from SEGA has stated where a game takes place in particular (beyond the obvious Sonic Adventure > Sonic Adventure 2, etc) that you know of? Such as what occurred with Sonic the Hedgehog CD when the character and graphic designer said it was between Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (though apparently the translator added a line about how the game may make players think that) or Sonic Advance 3 being stated to be the end of the Adventure Era and Sonic Rush the start of the next one at Sonic Boom 2013?

 

Well, I thought I would never be able to accomplish such a feat, and now I think I can make a whole 2D fangame with my own hands (just give me 10 years or so. ), my most recent progress being pixel art. Of course, almost nothing I'll do will be pro level, but at least I will be able to put something together without relying on others.

And no, no idea about the stuff you're asking for. :specialed:

 

Y'know what, you're right. I'm not going to get into Sonic Team by just sitting here complaining about the trash heap they've built, most likely not ever, but I can damn well show them how continuity for the series is best done. Now where to start...

No worries, it's a bit of a difficult query since there's been so many interviews and I'm asking of information from before 2008 (2006, really, that's about when Yuji Naka left and took the workers with him, hence the issues with Sonic the Hedgehog (2006), but I like to include that little gap period before Iizuka took the wheel for Sonic Unleashed).

Hm. What path do you think is the canonical in Shadow the Hedgehog? I've posted that "Together with Maria..." one having merit, but what do you think is the actual best continuity path?

 

Shadow's tricky, because I feel like a lot of the story events have to be canon, or at least reference earlier games in a significant way/are referenced in 06, but that don't fit into 1 path. For example, I feel like the confrontation with the GUN commander is important because it shows Shadow offering to settle their differences (don't forget, in Expert Mode he offers Shadow a job with GUN, and Shadow takes it as seen in 06), but that scene only plays before Lost Impact, whereas the Last Story begins on the Black Comet. I think you're better off cobbling together something out of significant plot points, as long as it ends aboard the Black Comet.

 

To be fair, it doesn't have to end on the Black Comet: Shadow could go there after whatever path to meet Black Doom and learn more about his past, since he's the only one with significant knowledge about it (the Sonic Adventure 2 cast don't really know what went down, only that Maria was killed and Gerald went insane, while Black Doom indicates he was present around that time and dealt with Shadow personally).

 

I seriously think that game didn't try to tell "the right story", they just scattered info so you need to play the whole thing to get a better grasp of what's happening, then last story sort of retcons the whole game and expects you to solve the puzzle about what really happened. Sonic continuity in a nutshell, you could say.

 

Naaah, Naka continuity was just follow-ons and Iizuka continuity collapses at the slightest touch. Shadow the Hedgehog's in-game continuity is scattered but still there. I think it also suits him to end up on the Neutral-Hero ending rather than the Pure Hero ending, since I don't think he'll ever be pure Hero but he'd still defend the Earth from threats, as he promised Maria.

 

So, what do you guys think about this sort of sentiment? If it's TL;DW, it's a dub vs. sub comparison of a cutscene in Team Sonic Racing. In the dub, Sonic is a cocky jackass who tries to trash talk Silver, then when Silver is too serious-minded to get it, jokes that he takes all the fun out of it. In the Japanese version, Sonic is also a cocky jackass, but he's not quite so much of an ass.

IMO, they're both perfectly fine, but the English script fits my conception of Sonic's personality a little better. But according to most of the subreddit thread, it seems they consider this some kind of abominable insult, and that Sonic should absolutely not be such a jerk. Hope they never read Fleetway!

 

I think that comes down mostly to the era of Sonic you grew up.

Most fans that grew up with the 90s era/early 2000s era Sonic are more comfortable with a more arrogant and rude Sonic.

While fans that grew with Sonic post 2003 are more comfortable with a more hyperactive shonen Sonic that's nicer and more understanding.

Can't really blame them since I do think Sonic has been more chill for a long time now, so it's not surprising that people feel it doesn't fit his character when he shows some of that old attitude.

 

Yeah, it definitely trends along generational lines. Although, the majority consensus among that group seems to be that Colors was where the characters' personalities went off-kilter, and it's particularly bizarre, because they sometimes say, word for word, EXACTLY the same things I remember fans my age saying about the early 3D games. "Sonic used to be cool, but now they try to MAKE him cool, and it's so lame!" That sort of thing. I think the truth is, Sonic was always written to be cool _for kids_, and you only notice what a cornball he is when you're not one anymore. Sonic didn't change that much, but we did, and accepting this takes some perspective. :P

I've also heard that "trash talk" among friends doesn't seem to be as common with teens now. (Though I'm sure it depends on the person, and the community.) But like, to this day, when my friends and I get together, we're mostly dunking on each other, and the better friends we are, the more we do it. But if you that sort of behavior as rude or off-putting, then Sonic acting like a jackass might not be so endearing.

 

Can confirm, I saw Sonic say "your about to get your car fed to you by a blue hedgehog" and I was gobsmacked, like what freaking planet is this Sonic from? Makes "Baldy Nosehair" seem tame by comparison.

 

HAH, and of course, I thought that line was on-point, if maybe a little TOO tame. :P It's a bit of a nonsense insult, but it was delivered with cocky confidence, and that's why it landed. Sonic referring to himself like that always seems to land for me. It's why that moment in Secret Rings' ending where he goes, "I told you, I'm not a rat! I'm a HEDGEHOG!" was on of the very few times in that era where Sonic felt "right" to me.

But what's right to me might be completely off-putting to someone else. Metal was wrong in the OVA, there was NEVER only one Sonic, and even moreso now. The series has been way too many different things over the years, to the point that even the characterization of the protagonist is open to interpretation.

(Also, if you think that's bad, make sure you never, ever read Fleetway.)

Spoiler

 

I mean I don't think he's being a jerk specifically, just kind of trying to joke around with Silver and he wants him to bounce back at him the same way Shadow and Knuckles might, but uh like was satam sonic mean to his friends that much? Bad guys sure but I don't think even aosth Sonic was mean to Tails; fleetway is something else of course

 

Remembers that half this continuity thread has been about the Two Worlds Canon and the effect it's had on the series.

 

My gripe with current Sonic isn't that he's a jerk. It's his cringy meme-bait dialogue. Lines like "No copyright law in the universe is going to stop me!" and, yes, "Baldy McNosehair", make him come off as a parody to me.

Well, that, and the fact I find Sonic's typical western characterization as an over the top braggart too irritating. I prefer him closer to his traditional Japanese characterizations (as in SA1/SA2 --particularly the original Japanese script--, the OVA, Sonic X...), who was still cocky but didn't need to constantly boast about how he is so cool and fast and awesome and is totally going to kick your butt. He was usually doing his own thing without a care about what anyone else thinks, but if you took him on, he wasn't afraid of showing off his mad skillz or mocking you in a cheeky manner. Like, say, you challenge him to a race. He probably won't speak a lot during the race, but you may see this in front of you:


Ironic, given that I'm a 90's kid whose first exposure to any Sonic characterization was the DiC cartoons.

I don't know. Fleetway's Sonic may be a bit of a jerk, but I'd say he's doesn't come off that different from SA2 Sonic in that scene.

 

This all the way. It's not that Sonic shouldn't make jokes, it's that he should be making better jokes.

 

Personally I feel like "no copyright law in the universe" is actually pretty metal and on the point of JP vs English I think the description of JP Sonic given by @Blue Spikeball makes Sonic sound like generic shonen protag. Yeah, Sonic was pretty shonenesque during the Adventure era but I think being a bit of an ass is what makes his personality unique. Spiky, even, if you can forgive the pun. I think it creates a really great dichotomy where he'll crack wise all day long if he feels like but he's got a strong sense of justice and won't mess around if things get serious.

 

Very much so. He is the source of Sonic the Comic's Super Sonic, and Super means Superlative, the highest quality or degree of. Where Games Sonic has a strong sense of morality and all that, Sonic the Comic's Super Sonic takes Sonic's dickishness and jerk quality and ramps them up to the highest degree.

 

I mean, I could tolerate and in some cases even accept Fleetways more abrasive qualities because I know that it's a different incarnation of Sonic, like all the other Sonic's of the 90s: comic, Satam, and even Classic on the og Mega Drive.

Not so much with Forces Sonic who's ostensibly the same character as Colours Sonic, who is the same character as Unleashed Sonic who is the same as all the other game Sonics since Adventure.