don't click here

The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    5,645
    771
    93
    England
    Complaining
    The Overlord has spoken! All praise the Overlord!

    It's the Babylon Story, the desert in the background helped narrow it down.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I don't think it's 7002. It reads more like 1662 to me: the '0's have something on top of them and are half the size of the other numbers, which I don't think I've ever seen before, and the 7 looks like the 1 that's on my keyboard, rather than the angular vertical line common on 7. What do you think?

    Either 1662 or 1bb2

    Edit: Sorry, still stuck in the two threads thought process.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
  2. big smile

    big smile

    Oldbie
    1,023
    117
    43
    Sorry, for some reason, your images always appear broken for me, so I can't see them. But I remember checking on a massive TV back in 2006 and it did look more like 7002.
     
  3. Pengi

    Pengi

    Member
    1,891
    526
    93
    Might be easier to extract the texture from the disc. It'll probably still be a bit blurry though.
     
  4. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    5,645
    771
    93
    England
    Complaining
    Indeed, compression and all that. It'd be interesting to see if it's clearer and not have it at some angle.
     
  5. Pengi

    Pengi

    Member
    1,891
    526
    93
    In the same year, Shadow the Hedgehog referenced Japan (not sure if this is in the Japanese script). But Sonic Unleashed simply had fictional stand-ins for real world countries/continents, so I think their stance on referencing real world locations changed.

    For what it's worth, Jet had an Earth-like map in Sonic Riders.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
  6. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    5,645
    771
    93
    England
    Complaining
    Well to be fair, those were just cities: Empire City. I think it's more akin to Steven Universe, where the countries are still there, aspects have simply changed. They also have an Empire City.

    I've found the Japanese line, sent it to a translator, I'll get back to you on it once they get around to it.

    EDIT: Nope.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
  7. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    5,645
    771
    93
    England
    Complaining
    So after thinking about the Sonic Riders Earth mention this morning, I decided to have a look at the other games where I could and check their Earth mentions against the Japanese original. I just thought it would be interesting to see how many times it's actually translated correctly.

    For instance it turns out, Sonic Adventure 2 has a lot less of the planet's name than its translation:

    [Dark Story]
    Maria talking to Shadow in a flashback:

    Robotnik's Speech to the World:

    Robotnik, upon learning Tails has the seventh Chaos Emerald:
    Added: 24/09/2020

    [Last Story]
    Rouge Explaining to Sonic and Knuckles about the ARK falling:

    Gerald sentencing Humanity to death:

    Robotnik explaining what's happening with the ARK and Chaos Emeralds:

    Knuckles, after neutralising the Chaos Emeralds:

    Robotnik alerting the cast to the FinalHazard:

    Rouge wondering about Shadow's purpose:

    So for a grand total of eleven times the translation called the world Earth, the original Japanese mentioned the name once. Might have to double back and check the usages of "world" and "planet" at some point to be sure, but we'll see.

    Shadow the Hedgehog, meanwhile, doesn't mention Earth in the script, calling it "the world" and "this planet" depending on who's talking. Interestingly enough, the Black Arms say there's one leader of it:

    Though I've heard from some that Japanese doesn't naturally have plurals, so it might still be leaders, might not, or with the Black Arms attacking six major cities everyone's defaulting to the President of the United Federation as the overall leader. Who knows?

    Either way, the use of "world" and "planet" appears to be accurate. There's also an extra mention of planet, actually:
    (Somewhen, Silver gets shivers down his spine...)

    Speaking of Silver, Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) similarly has no mention of the name Earth, only referring to the world as, well, the world. Similarly, characters commonly refer to the future as "the future world."

    When Omega informs Shadow that he is the one who sealed him:

    When Silver first confronts Sonic:

    Kind of lends further credence that we can pass Sonic Forces' "Sonic of another world!" off as just Sonic of the past world. But moving on from that.

    Next is what we learned earlier, in Sonic Riders:

    Robotnik telling Jet about Sonic:

    Additional Earth mention from Jet directly after:

    Plus another English addition not in the Japanese original, while Tails is explaining the legend of Babylon Garden:

    Meanwhile in the sequel, Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity, Jet references the prior mention of Earth's name:

    Otherwise, the other mentions of the world and planet are accurate.

    With Sonic Rush, there are only two usages of Earth in the English translation, from Blaze ironically, but were added and are absent from the original Japanese script:

    Here are the images I took from a Japanese Video Site for those that would prefer to get them double checked
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    In the cutscene where Blaze meets Cream:

    In the cutscene where Knuckles tells Blaze to give the Emeralds to Sonic:

    Sonic Rush Adventure also has an instance, but I'm willing to bet the Japanese says "surface" or "the world", not "earth", though I can not find anything with the scene in Japanese online to verify that:

    Sonic Unleashed also mentions the planet as being Earth:

    EDIT NOTE: While it would make more sense for Light Gaia, an embodiment of the planet, to refer to the planet, Pengi has noted that the use of 'earth' here might be in reference to the soil instead.

    EDIT NOTE #2: Had my translator friend take a look: it's more like land. So Chip is saying "As a part of this land", which makes more sense.

    And, of course, starting with Sonic Colours all we get in Japan are "the world" and "this planet", while the localisation of Sonic Colours uses "Sonic's World", prompting the entire Two Worlds Conundrum. Also gives me an amusing image of Chip vowing to always be by Sonic's side, and him f**king off to another world for the next few games.

    There's a couple of others I can't check:

    Sonic Rivals doesn't have a Japanese release, and thus no Script. However, Nega does refer to the world as Earth when telling Knuckles his plans for the Master Emerald:

    Sonic Free Riders has no Japanese Translation up and I'm not going to harass people for a full game translation, but the presence of the Babylon Rogues and the use of the singular "world" in the English translation indicates it's another Earth game, as the Babylon Rogues have only ever established to be on Earth:

    All in all, it turns out they very rarely name the Earth in the games. A grand total of four times from what I've gathered, might be more if I've missed any, if anyone wants to confirm another time the series mentions Earth's name. I'd have posted pictures, but Big Smile's been having problems seeing the images I post, so I'll just link to Windii's Youtube Channel instead.

    Again, I just thought it'd be interesting to see how many times Earth was actually named, and it turns out Sonic Adventure 2's localisation named it far more times than the entire series has in Japanese.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  8. Pengi

    Pengi

    Member
    1,891
    526
    93
    In Japanese, isn't 地球 (chikyuu) Earth the planet, and 地 (chi) earth as in ground/soil/surface? Am I understanding that correctly?

    Similarly, that line you posted from the English Sonic Unleashed, in English "earth" with a lower case E is used to mean ground/soil/surface.
     
  9. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    5,645
    771
    93
    England
    Complaining
    That's a bit of a weird one, then. Wasn't the entire point of Light Gaia/Dark Gaia that they were an embodiment of the planet? But the word they us means they're just part of the soil? Duly noted, anyway.

    Still leaves me with the amusing image of Chip vowing to be by Sonic's side while he's travelling the planet, only for Sonic to disappear from the planet for the foreseeable future.

    EDIT: Had my translator friend take a look: it's more like land. So Chip is saying "As a part of this land", which makes more sense.

    Oh, I also got the translation back and added it to the post above the Earth one: there's no mention of Japan in the original, that was added in.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  10. Gestalt

    Gestalt

    Sphinx in Chains Member
  11. Starduster

    Starduster

    Can bench press at least two Sonic the Hedgehogs Member
    1,985
    1,203
    93
    Britain
    Fighting my procrastination addiction
    Honestly I don’t care whether they officially refer to Earth never again or not. What’s more important to me is presenting the setting as having the animals and the humans as part of one connected world like the Archie reboot did. I feel like it’s far more restrictive for the franchise to commit to keeping the two separate than to allow all elements to be accessible at any given time.
     
  12. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    5,645
    771
    93
    England
    Complaining
    Indeed. I prefer what SEGA of Japan have been doing for all but four times in the series, just saying "The World" when talking about the planet, but it should be a singular world, not "two worlds connected so thoroughly that they may as well be one, with people dancing between dimensions like it's playing Cotton-Eyed Joe, and apparently can talk to each other easily between said worlds if Rouge's comment about not hearing from "the President" lately during Sonic Heroes is any indication."

    Still, I just thought it was interesting to see how many times Earth was actually translated. Turns out, the US added a ton of Earth. Just one extreme or another with SEGA of America...
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  13. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

    Arriving four years late. Member
    5,338
    412
    63
    Lincs, UK
    TurBoa, S1RL
    In addition to the Unleashed one that's already been corrected:

    Neither of these are naming the planet as Earth. They're just idioms of the English language.

    It'd be like saying Sonic is a Christian if he said "What the hell is that?"
     
  14. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    5,645
    771
    93
    England
    Complaining
    Indeed, though isn't the expression tied to the name Earth? I mean, would you expect someone from the planet Omicron Persei 8 to say "Where on earth am I?" when they got lost?
    (Then again, I wouldn't expect them to say anything close to English, really.)

    Either way, I don't think it has any actual bearing on canon: Blaze is the one saying it and I'm not sure her Sol World is called Earth... then again...

    Anyway, it's something the English Translation added, nothing in the original Japanese script says an equivalent, so it's something I don't consider canonical. I was just noting it so people wouldn't bring it up at some point down the line for missing a 'reference' to Earth in those games.

    Decided to have one of Sonic Free Riders lines translated: after their sixth race, Jet says:

    Since that looked like a reference to the prior two mentions of Earth, I had the Japanese equivalent checked:
    [​IMG]

    Nope, it's another use of "the world" instead. Might have a look for the other times he says it, but I'm sure it's the same boat.
     
  15. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    5,645
    771
    93
    England
    Complaining
    I really need to stop posting as often in here, I'm double posting a lot when I shouldn't be...
    Damn my excitability and love for this subject...

    Still, couple of things. First, what appears to be a minor continuity connection between Sonic Advance 3 and Sonic Generations:
    [​IMG]

    Chaos Angel is, well, Angel Island, and Sky Sanctuary in Sonic Generations houses similar crystal... tops? Spinners?

    Makes me wonder if Marble Garden Zone's tops house similar crystals, just hidden away to prevent damage.

    Second, are we sure Sonic's World and Earth are separate worlds? Just, Sonic Dash did a thing and, well:
    [​IMG]

    On Rouge's file, we've got G.U.N. back in play...
    ...on the file's right-hand side.

    Neat continuity reference, at the very least.
     
  16. Josh

    Josh

    Oldbie
    2,123
    1,087
    93
    USA
    All right, I said I was thinking about it, and I actually got that "Welcome to the World of Sonic" book. It has STICKERS~!

    [​IMG]

    But yeah, the story breakdown section begins with Sonic Adventure, and aside from Generations, the book makes no direct reference to anything before it.

    [​IMG]

    It does, however, use a little sprite art from Sonic & Knuckles to give context to Knuckles' section. (As a kid who grew up knowing it as the "Floating Island," it's nice to see it called that! But don't worry, Knuckles' actual biography section makes it clear the proper name is still Angel Island.)

    [​IMG]

    And just for the sake of completion, here's the relevant Generations page:

    [​IMG]

    That aside, the only noteworthy thing I found in the book was this. Shadow seems as lost and conflicted about who he's supposed to be as we are! :psyduck:

    upload_2020-8-22_1-15-3.png

    Any other questions about the book, just let me know!
     
  17. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    5,645
    771
    93
    England
    Complaining
    Wait, is this supposed to be a timeline order? Just, Sonic Unleashed is placed after Sonic Lost World according to the book, even though it was released long before it.
    (Also, Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed is apparently canonical?)

    Also, is there any mention of the two worlds thing? Y'know, Sonic expressing surprised at the Human World or saying he went back to his world and saw Robotnik building the setting of Sonic Colours?
     
  18. big smile

    big smile

    Oldbie
    1,023
    117
    43
    That book lists all the modern Sonic console games that have a story apart from Sonic Shuffle and Sonic Pocket Adventure. I guess the modern Sonic timeline is really the Nintendo Sonic time line.
     
  19. Josh

    Josh

    Oldbie
    2,123
    1,087
    93
    USA
    If it is, we need to get Danica Patrick into this thread, stat! Did she travel to Sonic's world via a giant gold ring, or were the tracks were all somewhere here on Earth? THE PEOPLE DEMAND ANSWERS, DANICA~!

    I don't think there's any reason to read it that way. The only stories presented with any connective tissue are the two Adventure games, as Sonic opens up SA2 by saying, "Not long after that, the military came after me! And I had JUST saved the world!" All the others just launch straight into plot synopsis. The ASRT page is just a bunch of renders from the game, with Sonic saying, "After all that action, how about a trip to the showroom floor?"

    "The End" has Sonic saying, "We've been having adventures for a long time, haven't we?" Tails replies, "I lost count of how long! And yup, we sure have. [...] After all that, what are you going to do, Sonic?" "Have a snack of course!"

    Par for the course, none whatsoever. Also par for the course, the book never makes explicit reference to "Earth," but it doesn't commit to calling Sonic's world anything in particular, either. "Eggman's Ultra Accelerating Space elevator carried people to and from the surface of our planet."

    I swear, if we didn't have Word of God sources "clarifying" the issue, it's always presented so ambiguously in the text that you could pretty much shoehorn in whatever headcanon you want, and maybe that'd be preferable.

    "Is Sonic's world Earth? Is it Mobius? Is it the distant future? Are there different dimensions? Multiple worlds? Why did the character designs change? Where did the other humans go? Is Mr. Yuji Naka REALLY all right? We don't know! Believe whatever you want!"

    There are also no images in the book of any human other than Eggman, and it's notable that neither Chaos's bio or Sonic Adventure's story ever names Station Square. (Big's DOES mention the Mystic Ruins, however.) But, part of Rouge's bio reads: "I often work as an agent-for-hire for the Guardian Units of Nations, or G.U.N., who answer to the president of the United Federation." I think that's as much as we get of the "human world."
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  20. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    5,645
    771
    93
    England
    Complaining
    The Sonic Rivals games are also absent, as well as Sonic Battle, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Riders (despite the Babylon Rogues getting a character profile), Sonic the Hedgehog 4 and Sonic Chronicles. Sooo...?

    So basically, little to actually work with for continuity beyond stupid retcons like Classic Sonic.

    Because they can't have Sonic Generations pre-Sonic Storybook Series, since Sonic references them in said game, for instance.