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What approach should 3D Sonic take next?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by The Joebro64, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. BadBehavior

    BadBehavior

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    You mean like... 95% of all platformers ever? "Stop, turn, go, stop, turn, go" etc?
     
  2. qwertysonic

    qwertysonic

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    To be fair most platformers aren't good games. It's just what was easiest to make in the 90's. 3D platformers are even worse (think PS2 era nickelodeon games). The reason Sonic games were good is because they aren't typical platformers.
     
  3. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    Admittedly I was just using Overlord's post as a springboard to complain about a specific setpiece that pisses me off. But you're right, not much would be lost if it were removed. I do think it's a neat idea, and I think it could be better if used differently, but I'm too lazy to type up something that disconnected to the topic.
     
  4. Frostav

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    The light speed dash is really cool conceptually, and feels awesome to use in certain situations to keep your speed up (like the endless running Sonic/Shadow fight in SA2), but it is so extremely shallow in design I'm not sure how you could make it a meaningful technique with depth. It's just "press the button and watch the automation". Even Unleashed and Generations turned it into a glorified "push the button to go on the higher path" mechanic with limiting it to special lines of rings. Also it's kinda glitchy in the Adventure games lol
     
  5. BadBehavior

    BadBehavior

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    This is a problem with most of Sonic's move that just boil down to "press a button for free speed." The spindash just barely gets a pass because of its creative applications for platforming. There's not much creative about using the LSD, even in a Forces stage like Arsenal Pyramid it just boils down to "use quick path Y/N?"

    The Boost could be that, a situational tool like the spindash for shortcuts and such, but the way the games are designed (in 3D at least) encourages extreme speeds at all times with lightning-fast reflexes.
     
  6. Beltway

    Beltway

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    Pretty sure Lange said that the the the current sandbox build of Utopia won't reflect the final version, which is said to be more of a linear platformer like most Sonic (fan)games. In turn, videos he's posted of later gameplay builds on Twitter showcase more linear level layouts as well, so I don't think you'll have to worry about that overall. Can't say for sure about Murasaki and GHP, though; I don't really follow that project.

    It's actually somewhat surprising (and disappointing IMO) that a good amount of 3D Sonic fan projects floating around have sandbox style levels (both the very large worlds and even the smaller ones) but they don't actually try and create a mission/collect-a-thon gameplay approach. I've only come across one fan project that aims for a collect-a-thon game design, Sonic Explorers, and unfortunately I can't say I like it much. It's like the designers tried to bootstrap collect-a-thon elements and a sandbox world on top of "gotta go fast" Sonic gameplay philosophy and the execution feels entirely forced.

     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  7. The Light Speed Dash could be more useful if it was used in more creative ways. If there was ever a 3D Sonic game that had multiple playable characters without resorting to genre roulette (you know, like the Classics, the Advance games, the Rush games, and Mania), then they could have each character access different routes based around their abilities. Tails can fly, Knuckles can glide and climb on walls, and Sonic could maybe use the Light dash to access different routes. Sonic Forces kind of does something like this with the Avatar's Wisp-On abilities. Just ditch the wisps and give each character some unique abilities instead, and of course have better level design in general. Just my two cents.
     
  8. Rudie Radio Waves

    Rudie Radio Waves

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    Just wanted to chime in saying that I've been playing Spyro 1 with the intent of 100%ing the game, and yesterday I beat High Caves, which is a level characterized by a huge downwards slope that gives Spyro a ludicrous amount of speed when he dashes down it, which is stapled on top of a ramp, meaning you can make great leaps and glide to the eponymous high caves. I'm baffled as to why this kind of approach hasn't been incorporated in 3D Sonic games. Seems like a perfect fit to me!
     
  9. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    FWIW, I'd like to see a 3D platformer take a slower approach to Sonic just like that.
     
  10. Sid Starkiller

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    They have, it's just that the slopes have boosters and the ramps are automated, thus ruining the effect.
     
  11. Overlord

    Overlord

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    Most platformers you can do the move without having to stop and have high confidence you aren't going to fly off into the abyss. This does not apply to SA2 especially (SA1 isn't quite as bad for it).
     
  12. Antheraea

    Antheraea

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    ...I just remembered that the Egg Carrier is literally in Sonic 06
     
  13. Crasher

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    The issue I see with it is that Sonic seems pretty floaty, and the levels aren't that great. I like the idea of an open world with mini tracks you race around on, but the person playing it seems to want to get the collectibles on their first go around - which slows down the gameplay a ton.

    The design of it seems fine, it's just that the execution is lacking.
     
  14. Frostav

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    A lot of 3D fan projects are called "floaty" and I don't get it. If anything, the appeal of these fan projects is that unlike most 3D platformers Sonic is capable of immense speed and airtime when controlled well. It's one of the reasons Sonic GT has my favorite level design of any of these projects--it embraces the fact that Sonic can fly super far if handled well and doesn't artificially limit the player to just sticking to the ground like every other platformer.



    Sonic being to literally fly over half the level design if a skilled played is controlling him is cool as fuck and people want him to not do that?!
     
  15. DigitalDuck

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    You can have Sonic flying over land without it being like he's on the moon.
     
  16. Crasher

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    The issue is that Sonic has (in most games) never felt like he is easily able to fly around. He can fly around and skip parts of the level in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing - but either requires breaking the games' physics (Adventure games, Boost games) or good handling over said physics (Genesis trilogy) - or even both - alongside a good knowledge of the level.

    Sonic has never felt floaty, for lack of a better word. Even in the Adventure games, which I feel like is the closest to the fangames in the official games, he was still grounded. Far too many fangames try to let Sonic jump really high, and fall really slow, so you can do these amazing skip-half-the-level runs, but forget that it's supposed to be a reward.
     
  17. Nova

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    I'd be curious but I'm not so sure the answer is throwing away what makes Sonic unique from other 3D platformers. A lot of people have this impression that the classic games are 'slow' and we should go back to that, but as somebody who's competed with me for miliseconds on Chemical Plant in Mania, you know very well that the design of those games allows for some serious speed and that's always what the series was going for (alongside handfuls of exploration in the right places). I don't want Sonic to ever slow down but I also don't think that a typical 3D environment set up with some standard 3D controls will ever be the right call to make with this series. Maybe I'm biased after seeing one too many fangames try and be basically that only to leave me wondering how the level is supposed to guide the player at all.

    It's cool but it always feels far, far too low gravity and I've yet to see it have any use other than "look at the big sandbox level we made from really high up".
     
  18. I think this goes to show that no one can really agree on what they want out of 3D Sonic gameplay. This series is such a damn mess.
     
  19. Trickster's Joke

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    What I think it should be: Focused on whatever its trying to do
    What it will be: Nostalgia driven, this time probably focused on adventure era people

    Yeah its 30 years old and there are different versions of it
    Its not a mess,well not for the reason you are stating anyway, its the nature of being a thing that's old. there's no series where multiple versions of its fan bases can decide what is and what isn't, and the idea that sonic is a mess particularly because of that is some strange nomenclature that's just been spread and internalized with little actual introspection.
     
  20. LucasMadword

    LucasMadword

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    This is exactly why part of me wants Sonic Team to, at least for now, stop focusing on Sonic games. They need a break to catch their wind back, quite clearly, as they don't know where they are going. Let them make another Nights into Dreams game, or another IP. Hell, even let them make another Ristar. Anything that isn't Sonic the Hedgehog. Their last game that wasn't Puyo Puyo or Sonic was Phantasy Star Portable in 2008, and even that had help from a co-developer. No wonder they're so burned out, they've been working on Sonic non-stop, they have a bunch of fans who cannot agree with what they want.

    Personally, I don't care what style they go for, in regards to the next mainline Sonic game. Is it an "Adventure" styled game? Is it a "boost" styled game? Is it going even more back and remaking Sonic Jam's physics engine? Literally don't care, I just want a fun game.

    There will always be fans not satisfied with the product. However, the reason Sonic right now is so split, is because we haven't had an actual good game for a long while. No 3D Sonic game has really been actually "great", they've all been good with a dash of nostalgia. They all have glimmers of a good idea, even Sonic 06 has areas where it really seems it could've turned out great. No wonder us Sonic fans have no way to tell what we want, all we do is latch onto the few small glimmers of enjoyment we got out of these mediocre 3D games and hope they will build on them to make something everyone will love.... which they never do.

    This is why I just wish Sonic Team would stop nostalgia pandering, take some time away from Sonic, and come back to the franchise when they have a solid idea of what they want to make. Sonic Mania didn't start out as a, "hey, how do we make the next Sonic game because people are expecting it", it instead was, "hey, how about we do a Classic Sonic game in the style of if it was on the Sega Saturn?".... it was an idea to make a game, not just a requirement to pump out another game in the series.

    (Yes, I know Sonic is too much of a money-maker for them to step away for a few different games. I know it'll never happen lol)