I think the real issue here is that wiki-related topics don't have their own sub-forum, but I think you said once you asked for that and didn't get it, so I understand your complaints. --- Another wall of text incoming. Back on topic, any complaint I can have about Mania would never put it below Advance in my list, both because I prefer Mania (Plus) over Advance in questions that leave room for opinion, and because it hardly has a chance against any classic game in my book. Examples I can remember: - Level art in Advance, while good, doesn't completely fits classic Sonic, feels a lot more Nintendo-ish, and not enough pseudo-3D. Character art is fully cartoony/flat, and its modern Sonic which I don't want in my 2D games. - About game sound, I think GBA killed any chance of it sounding good enough, so technically it's not the game's fault, but doesn't help either. - Level design was nice and fun, felt a lot more classic than playing 3D games, but, like with the other first modern games, having its share of generic quality doesn't mean it's on par with what I'd expect to be classic Sonic quality, plus the game isn't that long. - Overall, its like Sonic Adventure: a bridge game that still feels classic but it's also the start of modern games, so it's acceptable but not a quality reference except when comparing it to what came next. Besides that, there are pros and cons you've put up there that aren't really relevant in this comparison: - Rehashed levels in Mania, for example, were there because it was an anniversary title. - You're not being fair with the extra characters, since they depend on a lot more things, like considering how pointless character addition harmed the franchise to the point of returning to having only Sonic as a playable character in many games. I agree losing Amy is bad, and I agree Mighty is really disappointing, but those are separate questions, and, frankly, getting 2 characters, a bonus stage and a new mode with a totally new act for Mirage Saloon and a full set of special stages doesn't sound bad for the extra price: before it came out, I honestly thought vanilla Mania would cost a lot more than it ended up costing, so the extra money for the DLC wasn't an issue for me, and GBA could never have DLCs unless they released Sonic & Knuckles Advance. - Regardless of my opinion about dropped rings, having a preference over one style over the other makes those games different, not one better than the other. I prefer some control too, but it's true that scattering rings randomly is much more coherent, so I'd take it as it comes instead of whining. - Same for Super Sonic: I didn't have that on Sonic 1, CD, and the 8-bit games, and I enjoyed those games a lot. Being super is good in longer games to beat them in one strike, but never necessary (except in Death Egg from Sonic 2 where you can't have it without cheating). Sorry, it's great that you like Advance, it's great even that you prefer it over Mania for some reason, but you're evidently having a biased opinion that, if I had to guess, I'd say it has more to do with fond memories and nostalgia than with the actual games. For that matter, I still don't know why I really prefer S3&K over Mania, it has a lot to do with bosses but childhood bias is probably present too, as I don't enjoy videogames that much these days. You should have considered that before saying anything. EDIT: Almost forgot. Complaining about Knuckles gliding underwater can make sense if compared to Advance, but honestly, Knuckles being able to glide is weird enough to not ask questions about further details, Knuckles' glide could even make more sense under water than out of it, if you ask me.
This quite an interesting comparison actually. Never did I think that there would be someone who prefers Sonic Advance over Sonic Mania. Personally, I would probably consider them about equal. The physics in Advance and Mania both do a good job of the Genesis's gameplay. As for the moves; I was not a fan of the drop-dash in Mania. It replaced the superior insta-shield, and was literally just a quicker way to do a spindash. In the trailer they showed a bit where the drop-dash could be useful, but moments such as those are not common enough to make it worthwhile, at least not compared to the insta-shield. The new moves in Advance were welcome; the layouts should have taken more advantage of them, but they come with no sacrifice of previous abilities which is nice. As for originality, Sonic Advance beats Mania with originality. I too felt like Mania was step-down from S3K in many ways. The art styles between Mania and Advance are very different. On one hand I like Mania's graphical design, but some sprites just look too blurry and the over-saturated palettes can be bothersome after awhile. I really did like Knuckles' Chaotix's artsyle. To me it was the best of the classics with S3K coming in second. Mania tried to continue that style, but also went overkill with the saturation of its palettes. Knuckles is the pinkest he has ever been and Sonic is almost cyan. I like Advance's graphical design used in the foreground and the background especially, but the character sprites were too flat looking. For the the addition of new characters, I would have preferred to see Amy appear over Mighty and Ray any day. Amy's Advance play-style had a lot of potential if it was done correctly. Mighty is cool, but his gameplay was lackluster. Ray was only a sprite-swap of Sonic that appeared in a single game up to this game, so I would say outside of his oversized sprites, his gameplay was unique and a welcome addition (even though I could never get it). I'll take fat Sonic over triangle shoes, thin spikes, noodle arms, and resizing fists. Classic Sonic was always chubby anyway. The inaccurate Sonic 1 sprites also helped inspire the American design, while 3's sprites reflect the actual JP design.
I like apples but my friend likes oranges, how can we both be right? In all seriousness, Sonic Advance just feels to me like Modern Sonic flattened out. Which is fine, and I won't even act like I didn't enjoy it, but I don't think comparing it to the classic games and Mania on the subject of gameplay achieves anything. Complaining about the price for Mighty and Ray seems a bit petty when compared to the release day price for the MD cartridges (remember 3K was TWO CARTRIDGES OH LAWD HE COMIN'). Before Mania, Rush was my favourite game after 3K, so it's not as though I'm against that gameplay style. I think Sonic 4 could've been something special with a bit more consideration put into it, but even then making it a numbered game was a bit ambitious.
It's no competition. Sonic Mania is the first 2D Sonic game made as a true successor to Sonic 3 & Knuckles, the first to take what S3&K did and build upon it. Sonic Advance dialed things back to the Sonic 2 template, but with the bare minimum 7 Zones and largely mediocre level design. It didn't feel like "the next in the series", so much as "a handheld version of Sonic", when a handheld game was still largely considered to be lesser. And in fairness, it largely succeeded in that regard. It was a competent Sonic game, that played the way you'd expect, and you could play it on a train. I did like Neo Green Hill Zone a lot, particularly the way the environment progressed (beach > boardwalk > street > tropical > forest > street > suspension bridge). Unfortunately, that creativity and attention to detail didn't extend to the rest of the game. Sonic levels are all about their unique gimmicks and terrain layout, but in Sonic Advance the gimmicks kept on getting recycled from Zone to Zone. The approach to level layout stayed much the same, save for an increasing amount of bottomless pits. Egg Rocket was memorable for its vertical layout, but I struggle to think of anything beyond that. Gotta call bullshit on this. The Act 1s were greatly expanded and the Act 2s were brand new. Chemical Plant Zone Act 2, for example, with it bouncy chemical gimmick and verticality played almost entirely like a new Zone. As did Oil Ocean Zone Act 2, Flying Battery Zone Act 2 and several others. Mania's brand new Zones were the highlights, and more would have been ideal. But I prefer the idea of explicitly bringing back an old Zone with new twists, over a knock-off version of a past Zone, with little or no new twists. Can "Casino Paradise Zone" truly be called a new Zone? With Mania's Stardust Speedway Zone, you get the benefits of the nostalgia factor, the slick new presentation and remixed music of an old favourite, the new gameplay twists and subversions of expectations. With Casino Paradise Zone, you get a lesser version of Casino Night Zone. With Ice Mountain Zone, a lesser IceCap Zone, but with no unique gimmicks. Sonic Advance is a decent game, but it took a very cookie cutter approach. A shame, because the character sprite animation was superb (even if Sonic's running pose was dumb).
