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Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    It doesn't really feel all that worse, honestly. The only really noticeable thing is Sonic's jump in forward momentum.
     
  2. Glaber

    Glaber

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    they definatly could have done without classic's run cap. Makes him slow down about as fast as an SRB2 character after hitting a horizontal booster on the ground.

    And that's a double slam at 2 games.

    They did get the rolling right, but maybe a bit too accurate since a certain bug seen in early game play videos was technically a classic one from Sonic 1 on the Genesis. (try rolling down the slopes in spring yard some time)
     
  3. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Okay, I'll give you the run cap. That was definitely weird-looking.
     
  4. MathUser

    MathUser

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    I just played through this game. It was pretty fun. Heavy focus on 2d stages.
     
  5. Gestalt

    Gestalt

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    Forces doesn't empathize with the player imo. The camera, controls and animations (to some extent) do not feel natural. Classic Sonic's sound effect for jumping doesn't fit when he's rotating too much (which forces me to look more precisely at the screen). I have no fun overcoming flaws like that. :(
     
  6. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

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    I wouldn't even say it needed to be better. It just needed to be on par with Generations to keep people satisfied. Instead it took Generations' skin and tried to stretch it over a new forbidden shape, using a bit of Lost World adhesive tape to hold it together whilst tying a Wisp ribbon on top.

    I mean, I don't hate Forces by any means, but in the words of Redlettermedia: "It's not a mess, but it is messy..."
     
  7. Beltway

    Beltway

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    Already touched on this back in the Mania thread a couple of weeks ago, but thought it was still worth bringing up here.

    Someone on Era compiled a list of the best to worst reviewed games of 2017 on Metacritic under a list of criteria: not including in the list games with <20 reviews, DLC/expansions, or ports/re-releases of pre-2017 games; while also narrowing multiplatform releases down to the version with the most reviews and folding games with episodic releases (Life is Strange, Telltale's Batman/GotG, etc.) or multiple versions (Pokemon Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon) into one entry.

    In a list that has a total count of 211 games, Forces (PS4, 58 now 57) charted very close to the bottom of the list, at #201.

    GameRankings also present similar results if you check their All-Time Worst, for games with at least 20 reviews released in 2017; Forces sits at #7 (PS4, 58.80%).
     
  8. 360

    360

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    The most disheartening thing is that the game isn't even terrible - it seems competent and has an aura of good intentions behind it - it's just so aggressively mediocre and bizarrely not on the level of Sonic Generations despite supposedly being made by similar people. It's definitely a disappointing release for Sonic and the reviews are reflecting that. I'm just glad we got one amazing Sonic game last year with Sonic Mania. Sonic Team need to realise that if they release a mediocre, half-hearted product this is going to be reflected in reviews and sales. It's honestly like they thought "it has the Sonic name on it, of course it will sell" and they just produced something without any energy or passion, rushed out the game and called it a day when the game needed much more than they were willing to give.

    Oh well, at least we have Sonic Mania. I think it speaks volumes that most of us here skipped the game, when we're the hardest of the hardcore. That kind of says you fucked up Sonic Team.
     
  9. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    maybe next time, they need to take the same approach to Sonic that Capcom is taking for Megaman 11. and by that I mean play all the past games and take notes about what's good and enjoyable about them. And yes, that includes sonic 06 and Boom.
     
  10. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    "Competent" and "well intentioned" are some of the last word that I would ever use to describe Forces. "Lazy" and "cynical" are far more accurate. Nothing about excessive automation and failing to learn any lessons from past efforts is competent. And nothing about "copying Generations and adding another shallow hook to appeal to all possible markets" is anything but cynical.
     
  11. Gestalt

    Gestalt

    Sphinx in Chains Member
    First party-Sega games and third party-Sega games are different from each other. Was Sonic successful because of this cool new Sega console coming out? Or was it the console because it ran a demo of the next big Sonic game? Either way. Forces is not a mediocre game. In fact it's very extravagant. Think about it.
     
  12. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    ...I don't understand why those things are mutually exclusive, nor how exactly the preceding statement is relevant to it.
     
  13. Gestalt

    Gestalt

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    I was thinking about why Forces got bad reviews and why Sega would release a game that seemingly nobody likes. Maybe their core audience changed over the past few years and Forces accomplished exactly what they were after?
     
  14. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Forces isn't any different in target than most modern Sonic games. It just didn't hit the mark as well as Unleashed or Colors (and to a lesser extent Generations and Lost World) did for most of them, which is why it's been getting these "meh" scores. There isn't any complicated explanation for that, hell I and many others like the game but nobody should be afraid to admit to that.

    In fact, most of the issues people have are true, I just think the game isn't hampered down so much by it that it isn't still an enjoyable experience, at least when compared to the last 4 main series titles, two of which are about on par with it in terms of what I liked the first time around (though I learned to like Lost World a lot more on repeat playthroughs).
     
  15. MiSHiKiS

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    So are we saying that automated, linear level design, extremely off controls, a worse Classic Sonic than from Generations and Reused assets from Lost World isn't mediocrity but "just not catering to the right audience" now?

    Most reviews were lambasting the game itself on its own merit and in comparison to it's past games.
     
  16. Beltway

    Beltway

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    The only "core audience" that got exactly what they were after from Forces were diehard fans who are conditioned to buy virtually every Sonic game that comes out.

    Everyone else need not apply. The market that exists outside of said diehard fans isn't entitled to support Sonic games.
     
  17. 360

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    I understand that you're massively disappointed - I think we all are - but what I meant is that initially Sega and Sonic Team did genuinely seem to have good intentions, or at least Sega's marketing team (Aaron etc.) did when they were pushing the game. I highly doubt Sonic Team actively set out to make something terrible here. They're just overworked and out of energy and passion and that's reflected in the final product. By "competent" I meant that it's a fully functioning game, which it is, and not say a Sonic 2006 level disaster. I honestly believe they did begin with good intentions.

    I mean there's the rumour (from Endri) that they prototyped the shit out of the next main Sonic game that became Forces, before as we speculate, abandoning everything and falling back on a Generations type game due to those prototypes having failed. I think this can be argued either way forever, but my point is, even though the final product is disappointing, I still firmly believe they did try here. Perhaps not hard enough, with insufficient creativity and dedication, but there is a glow of effort behind the game, even if that effort wasn't enough and it disappoints on almost every level.

    Conceptually, the idea of "Robotnik has taken over the world dystopian style" is fucking amazing. Just a shame that the final game never lives up to that potential in execution.
     
  18. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    Should have been a SatAM tie in or have the Freedom fighters somewhere in the game. The Story fits with their setting perfectly. Heck, even the prequel comic has a Sally Acorn Cameo
     
  19. big smile

    big smile

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    Even if it's true that Forces was made at the last minute after Sonic Team abandon a previous idea, it's hard to be sympathetic to them. In Generations they built a wide library of level ideas and mechanics (such as the elemental shields). If they were short on time, they could have drawn on some of these to use as building blocks in Forces, but instead they omitted them entirely, which is just bizarre.
    What's really weird is that Iizukia has talked in the past about how Generations had a shortened development cycle due to Sega not originally planning for the 20th anniversary so it's not like Sonic Team are strangers to turning out good work with limited time.

    Forces is so basic and simplified that, much like Sonic 4, it feels like a mobile game that was ported to consoles. (Although considering the avatar began life as a mobile app, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened).
     
  20. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    The difference is that during the 20th anniversary Sega threw money and resources to the Sonic brand which resulted in a great year for the celebrations and Generations.

    Putting the games aside, think of everything Sega did for Sonic in 2011, now compare it to what they did in 2016. The 25th anniversary was really lackluster in many areas, even though it was the most important milestone.

    So going back to Forces, this time they had the time but not the resources. And when you take in consideration all the allegedly things that happened to the team, it's not surprising the game came out the way it did.

    In other words, Sonic Team might do questionable things here and there, but they're also victims of circumstances.

    It's a good thing Mania came out to save the day.