Sonic Forces Thread

To be fair, everything is 0 or 90 degrees in the original game too.
Generation's Green Hill Zone was more on the realistic side, while Forces is going for something more stylized. It seems almost like a poorly done cross between Generations an the original game.
Main reason it probably looks so bad is the sand. It just doesn't work in GHZ. I didn't even realize it was supposed to be sand at first. I looks like a models that doesn't a textures applied to it.

 

Or is it? ( ?° ?? ?°)

 

Oh, are we still desperately trying to keep the hate train going

Top kek, guys, godspeed

 

Nothing to hate about Bubsy now being a Sonic character.

 

Exactly, why don't we ditch the negativity and truly celebrate this miracle? :specialed:

 

True words we should all take to heart. Some may say that the new GHZ looks barren and lifeless, but this new design is clearly a clever and skilled attempt for Sega to combine the most iconic parts of Sonic the Hedgehog and Bubsy 3D, and they've done an amazing job.

 

Well in other news, didn't that Famtisu or whatever magazine say something was coming on 4/14? Well that's today, so I wonder what we'll see. Hopefully some more gameplay of either Classic or Modern, as we need some more footage to form better opinions about this.

At least as far as the Modern footage goes, yea it was like 30 seconds of straight line zone, but to be fair Generations Modern GHZ started off with 30 seconds of straight line zone, and so did Tropical Resort and so did Windmill Isle. The first level in boost games seems to be the "get acclimated to the controls without use of a tutorial" zone.

I'm curious though. Is this GHZ Classic Sonic's 1st level or is this a later level? Will we have an Act 1 and 2 thing going on like in Generations or will this be more like SA1 where they go through the same levels but in different orders? Or hell, maybe it'll be like SA2 and they don't share any of the same levels.

 

What are the chances that the Switch version is actually a different game built upon Lost World (just as Unleashed had a completely different Wii/PS2 version)?

 

Considering they showed last month's Modern Sonic footage during the Nintendo Direct, I think it's safe to say that the Switch version will be the same game as the PS4/Xbox One/PC versions.

 

Probably pretty slim. The Switch is close enough to the PS4/Xbox One that it would make more sense to just bump the quality down slightly and put it on the Switch than to go out of their way and make a B version of the game. That and like TimmiT said, Modern Sonic's footage was exactly the same as what we already saw, unless for some reason the footage we saw earlier was the Switch version.

Personally I hope we're done with the B version games. Unleashed, Colors, Generations, and Lost World had B versions and they're all so much worse than the A versions. Just put more time into the A version. And if they need to make another Sonic game at the same time then just make something different.

 

Not sure if this was brought up earlier in the thread, but I quite like the particle effects that they have in this game so far. Particles have become a weirdly big thing this console generation.

 

Well I mean how far can they even take cartoony graphics anyway? So yea why not just add more effects

 

I didn't see modern gameplay in the Switch showcase, but maybe I missed it. It looks the same without graphical downgrades then?
Anyway, looking at the city-stage screens posted below makes me wonder how the quality difference between the classic and modern sections could be so great.

 

I think that's the question on a lot of our minds. It's very strange that the city looks real and natural and the nature environment looks fake and plastic.

EDIT: Oh yea from the Japanese Website. Have 5 minutes of Death Egg Robots pounding on things and being shot at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwT2jv55CQw

 

Honestly, I just love what they've done with Sonic's effects here. Everything is super bright, flashy cyan. It just looks excellent.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, it appears that the Modern footage is actually different from what we already saw. Sonic only homing attacks 2/3 enemies on the steps in the Nintendo footage, but he attacks all 3 in order on the previous footage. Plus the game seems to look a bit uglier in the Nintendo footage, so I believe we were looking at Switch footage for both Classic and Modern gameplay in the Nintendo Direct.

 

Actually read what I'm saying please. The problem with the way Shadow handled its darker themes was it crossed the line into edgy territory. In SA2, the player was never forced the arm the bombs, they just saw the results of it. In Shadow, they were able to make the city erupt themselves, which is pretty edgy. There's a fine line between hearing a gun being fired, and actually pulling the trigger yourself. In the actual ending of the game, Black Doom sends the Black Comet hurling into Central City, leveling the landscape, and most likely killing some folks in the process. Now Perfect Chaos did that too, but it's implied the citizens at least got to safety first with the streets being empty as Perfect Chaos flooded them, and then when they all started cheering on Sonic. Shadow didn't have that, and it had a giant red cloud looming overhead as you fought black doom (also an edgy aesthetic). Shadow takes whatever dark tones were presented in SA2, and takes them to a logical extreme, breaking the balance that SA2 had with a slew of edgy monologing, and exposition from Shadow. Even in the Hero side story, Shadow still prattles on about who he is, and you still have the twists where you can just outright betray everyone, and go into yet another monologe about "THIS IS WHO I AM". It's tiring, especially alongside Black Doom's rants about how "Humans are bad, mkay?" and his constant insistence on wiping them out. And it could've been different. If Black Doom had made it clear that he wanted humanity dead early on, and just encouraged Shadow throughout the game whenever he did something Black Doom wanted without the monologue, it would've been fine. If they had mixed in more light moments throughout the dark path, it would've been fine. If the hero side story did away with the stupid self-loathing and self-questioning from Shadow, it would've been dandy. But instead, we got what we got out of Shadow.

My point is that SA1 has strange dissconects throughout the story that don't really relate to the overall narrative in any way. Big searching for Froggy is only very loosely (albeit somewhat hilariously) tied into the narrative as a whole. It's mostly a comedic story about a giant cat finding his pet frog, that only really clashes with the main story when Big helps Sonic defeat Chaos 6, although his impact there is questionable at best. In Amy's story, everything after the Egg Carrier is inconsequential to the overall story. It's just Amy learning her place in the universe as she tries to get Sonic's attention whilst learning to stand up for herself. Tails is the same way, except with him learning to stop relying on Sonic so much. Gamma is the exact same way. He develops a conscious, and goes free the flickies inside his "brothers". Knuckles basically adds nothing to the story, outside of Chaos 4, and then Chaos getting 6 of the Emeralds back.

Now, how do these all really impact the story? As stories, they're all fine. Decently told with a solid conclusion. But they create a disconnect between the main story and their side-stories. And the only one who impacts the story all the way through is Sonic. These little side-ventures aren't bad, but they create a lot of room for easing up the darker aspects of the story by simply being disconnected from the overall plot. Everyone in SA2, on the other hand, fit neatly into SA2's overall story. Even Knuckles and Rouge, who seemingly don't matter at all, play a vital role in keeping SA2 moving. It leads to less opportunities for simple goofing off from the characters, leading to a tighter, and darker storyline overall. The massacre of the Echidnas is sombering, don't get me wrong, but it's overshadowed by a big purple cat going fishing for the day.

At the moment, that is exactly what I want. Sonic has never had a solid style, except for the 4 classic games, since his inception. SEGA has always tacked on unneeded tidbits, and changed gameplay styles after 1 or 2 attempts. I mean heck, even when they had something going with the boost formula, they still decided to swap it up with the Lost World gameplay. Look at something like Super Mario Bros, for instance. Since the original Super Mario Bros, Nintendo had a solid idea of who they wanted Mario to be. They refined and redefined it over the course of the next couple of games, sure. But the point is they had something solid, and you see that solidity nowadays with the New Super Mario Bros lineup. They translated the lessons they learned from Mario World into a new line of games, and it worked. The same goes for the 3D games. When you look at it from an outside perspective, Sunshine is a natural evolution of Mario 64, just with the FLUDD. You have the same mission-based structure, the same sort of level structure, and the same sort of platforming challenges. Just with something that enhanced platforming itself (because honestly, FLUDD is an excellent addition to Mario's arsenal when it comes to platforming, and it allowed Nintendo to get a little more wild with the level design). I mean to this day, you have fans clamoring for Sunshine 2, which should tell you a lot about how the game is perceived. They refined what worked in Sunshine for Galaxy and Galaxy 2, and they're refining what worked in Galaxy 2 for Odyssey. It's a natural flow for Mario. Now, compare that to what SEGA has done for Sonic team. They refined certain aspects of SA1 to SA2... then abandoned the concept for Heroes... then refined certain aspects of heroes for Shadow, then abandoned that to go back to the Adventure style in 06, then got rid of that for the boost formula in Unleashed, then abandoned that for whatever was in Black Knight, then went refined what worked with the boost in Colors and Generations... and abandoned it again for Lost World. You see what I'm saying? You see how this is an issue with Sonic, where they relentlessly reinvent the wheel every other game? You see why I just want them to hold off for a game or two to see what works?

Except for the ruins being hard to spot in the level to begin with, how finding the Mystic Melody in the first place is a pot-shot as you scower various parts of whatever levels are leftover without upgrades to nab it, how it's not immediately obvious how to find the Chao in the first place as you run through the level in order to spot it hiding somewhere without realizing that you need an upgrade to play a little diddy in front of those ancient ruins you randomly find throughout your adventure, and then you have to traverse potentially deathly platforming or preform a monotonous repetitious task (looking at you, City Escape, with your garbage spring-hopping thing) in order to find said Chao.

Ever read any SA1 review, ever? Most folks complain about how half the game is boring (Amy, Big, and E102), and how half the game is exciting (Sonic, Tails, and Knux). On top of that, E102 and Amy are basically Sonic's gameplay with a few kinks. Shooting things with Gamma is not super different from spindashing into them, or punching them with Knux. Having the timer count down backwards isn't a super difficult thing that takes ages to wrap your mind around. Having to run away from a robot is neither difficult, nor is it strenuous. And on top of that, your goal in both stories is concurrent with Sonic's in SA1: Get to the goal. And really, once you get there with Gamma, it's not hard to press B thrice to take out Gamma's "brothers". Point is, they're straightforward, and not all that offensive.

If you're a masochist. When I ever go back to SA2, I only play Eggman and Tails' sections to farm Chaos Drives to the Chao Garden. They're chocked full with horrendous design choices, what with enemies placed that they drop right on top of you if you don't move at a snail's pace throughout the level, and the mechs themselves handling so loosely.

And who, coincidentally, was the least-fun to play as in both those games? Amy is so frustrating to play in Advance, especially if you get to a hill and you don't have enough speed to get up it. Who knew the spindash was actually a really good move? On top of that, if you had Amy as your partner in Advance 3, you were put in an immediate handicap, seeing as you couldn't continuously bounce on enemies, hitting one took an extra step, and you can't spam your hammer in the air. But hey, at least you got a gimmicky hammer? Right? The least the could've done for Amy is Advance was give her her hammer jump like in SA1, as it would've made her feel more fluid and fun. But nah, can't even give her that. Also, if we want to be picky, she played just like Sonic in Heroes and SA2's multiplayer.

At the very least, they were less of a hassle to get through, with the exception of the find the Chao missions. My time killing all GUN soldiers in Westopolis alone still averages at about 9 minutes, seeing as there's no indicator to if you missed any troops or not. Not to mention the headache that is traversing the space levels, as gigantic as they are. Not only that, but I am forced to play some of those missions if I want to get to the real ending. Granted, I have some freedom in how I tackle it, but still, most of the missions are a slog, and some lock me into one of two win conditions, and it's impossible to backtrack and try again on most of those. In SA2 and SA1, I have to get to the goal in each stage (except with Big, who is also a chore to play as) and I can continue through the game.

Sylvania Castle is an Aquatic Ruin knockoff. Oil Ocean may look slightly different, but it's still Oil Ocean. And whoop-de-do, Splash Hill has vines to swing on! Lost Labyrinth has a stupid tilting mechanic! Sylvania Castle has those stupid tilting platforming. Give me a break. They're not unique, and adding in stupid gimmicks doesn't make it more so. It is inexcusable how much Sonic 4 shamelessly rips off the classics. Also funny how you say no one's complaining about Mania, meanwhile Irixion is in this very thread doing just that. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I will gladly pan Mania for shamelessly rehashing the older stages, because I'm sick of seeing them too.

Yes it is. You wanna know why? Because we've done that for a decade now. A garbage trailer comes out, it looks horrendous, we "give it a chance", and low-and-behold! It's atrocious. I can only give SEGA so much leeway before I realize that there's a pattern going on, and start judging the games based on the trailers. And honestly, that's what gameplay trailers are for, to let players judge the game before it comes out. And I'm not the biggest Mario fan in the world, but it's a shame when I'm more excited for Odyssey then I am Forces. The Odyssey trailer showed us fresh ideas, fresh game from Mario, which is what a gameplay trailer should do. You know what I saw from Forces? Linear and empty levels, bland graphics, bland gameplay, and in general, more of the same. Nothing to get excited about, nothing to fall in love with, nothing that really makes me want to buy the game. And frankly, can you blame us for judging the game so early? We did the same for Shadow, and we were right. We did the same for Sonic 4, and we were right. We did the same for Boom, and we were right. On top of that, we're just as sick of hearing "GIVE SONIC A CHANCE! THE GAME'S NOT OUT YET! DON'T JUDGE BASED ON TRAILERS!" over and over and over and over and over and over again as you are in regards to hearing us complain about it. And we're especially tired of hearing about how "entitled" we are after the game comes out, and it turns out to be utter garbage, and then we pan it for being subsequent garbage. The "it's not out" argument has grown stale. especially after we've heard it for years on end.

 

I'm very sure that the majority of the complaints of Shadow the Hedgehog's mission-based structure were of it not being "Sonic-like". This is even still a prevalent criticism. It's a particularly strange case because Shadow the Hedgehog was marketed as a spin-off and I'm very sure that its mission-based gameplay was highlighted, but people complained anyways about it not being like the Sonic Adventure games and not being "Sonic". Regarding the criticisms of the mission-based gameplay, I personally think that the majority of the missions were done very well. The types of missions consists of "defeat all of the enemies on one side", "get all of a certain item", and "reach a different exit". In a couple of stages, you need to destroy an aircraft that the opposing side has, which takes a lot of damage. In the majority of the stages, none of the things that you need to find or defeat are hidden, so as long as you pay attention, there shouldn't be any issues with completing the missions in a short amount of time. Also, even if you need to go to each final stage twice for the final story, you are not completing the same mission and you can take different paths to those stages, completing different missions in each of the previous stages. I can see how needing to go through Westopolis 10 times would become annoying, but not going to the final stages twice. It isn't anywhere as bad as in Sonic Heroes, in which you need to complete an easy, normal, and hard version of the stages along with only one other variation actually being different.

I can see why others would consider the Werehog was boring, though. I still think that if they used a different character, it wouldn't have as much of a negative reception, if any, and fewer people would complain.

That isn't a good comparison. If they said that they were releasing a new Sonic Adventure game and instead released a compilation of their Dreamcast-era games, then they would have outright lied. With Sonic 4, they released a game whose style was meant to resemble the classic games. The game's zones resemble older zones while having their own gimmicks, and the Special Stages were improvements from the previous ones. I wouldn't consider them to be lying.

Also, let's consider some of the complaints with Sonic Forces that have recently appeared. Several people suddenly complain about Green Hill Zone being overused, that they aren't putting effort into the game, and that it will be terrible all from a few seconds of footage that doesn't reveal much of anything. The only other times that Green Hill Zone has appeared in a main series Sonic game was in Sonic 1, Sonic Adventure 2, and Sonic Generations. It isn't overused in the slightest. All of the other stages that resemble Green Hill Zone only do so graphics-wise. Those levels' designs tend to be very different. It's just like complaining about the first world in Mario games having the theme of grassy plains or complaining about the first worlds of Kirby games resembling Green Greens. I've never seen a large amount of that type of complaint from those fanbases as I've seen here. Besides, this is an anniversary title, so it would make sense to include Green Hill Zone again, and if you look at the footage again, sand has appeared where the water would be, so they are trying to do something original. Next are the complaints about the graphics, as if people forgot about how Modern Sonic's stage looked. Finally, we haven't seen what the new character willl be like or what the gameplay style is, so it's far too soon to come to conclusions.

 

To be fair, Boost gameplay is technically an evolution of Adventure gameplay. Take away bounce and spindash while replacing somersault with slide, give them boost, and SA2 speed characters would play almost identically to current gen **except for drift and quickstep**

The fact that Sonic Team tacks on other gameplay styles isn't bad. It's just bad for RIGHT NOW, as they still are developing Sonic's 3D iteration and need consistency. The resources and attention used for implementing gimmicks is being poorly executed in context to Sonic's base and core gameplay not being properly expanded, or emphasized. I love boost style gameplay and feel there's more potential uses for it if explored, but only after they fix Sonic without relying on boost.

Let's be honest with ourselves: there hasn't been a full 3D standalone Sonic game with 1 solid play style...Colors and Lost World are close, but the wisps are laced in gameplay/design too heavily! And the storybook games don't count because they are on rails. If boost is the natural evolution to Sonic from Adventure style gameplay, then I believe "Adventure" style is the best foundation to work with and build off of. And when I say Adventure style, I mean character skill wise and physics/mechanics, not necessarily Adventure field and hub world transitions to Action stages. Going that route would require some queues to be taken from Mario 64 or Sunshine with stars/shine sprites. Which could actually work if they went with the Phantasy Star Universe route. Origin hub world - pick Action Stage A. B. or C. - taking you to respective secondary hubs A2, B2, or C2 after level completion, with each secondary hub having its own particular number of Action stages eventually leading to a "Boss hub" that allows you to fight the boss of that area, leading to an "end hub" that allowed you to go directly back to the Origin hub of that zone. That idea alone would offer replay value of levels, unlocking of levels, reason to explore (if it means getting to an unknown hub for a hidden zone or boss or dare I say items for chao), and imagine how many hybrid tropes they'd have room to make for path progressions into other hubs/zones! It would blow Shadow the Hedgehog's path concept out the water by 100 fold. Especially if each hub had animal NPCs for giving in-stage missions, or event triggers.

My point is that, instead of adding huge robots in the background, or making levels overly massive and stretched out for portions of a level that we'll never interact with, just to send us on a set path using boost pads, shoehorning in Wisps for forced level dynamics...why not just dedicate those resources to Sonic's core fundamental gameplay and functionality? Building around that, would make levels better, power ups better and varied, add depth to the game even with a bare bones story narrative and even make other characters plausible as playable since they'd use Sonic's gameplay skeleton as a base (just like 3&K and SA1)

Sonic Team either doesn't have the resources, have no idea what Sonic is fundamentally, don't know what they want Sonic to be, or know HOW to make Sonic..."Sonic".

We should want Forces to do well, and be fun. But we should be aware of what's going on...Like why put Sonic in a car, or on a hover board, if we know Sonic runs faster than the use of those tools? We don't buy Sonic for that.