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Sonic Classic Heroes

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by flamewing, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

    See ya starside. Member
    Stealth would be better qualified than I am to answer this, but I think it's pretty safe to say no. Given that you can only use 256kb of program RAM rather than having access to 4mb of program ROM, I'd imagine that would be a pretty big obstacle for such an intensive hack like this one.
     
  2. MathUser

    MathUser

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    Mighty is gonna be in team SegaSonic, which makes sense.
     
  3. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    I can answer this: if I were to use the Sega CD in mode 1 (thus restricting the hack to Kega, real hardware and -- maybe -- Exodus for the time being), then I could either (a) use a CD to store all the art and copy them to work RAM when play starts and DMA from there or (b) I could the second processor to dynamically remap the colors (like is done for KiS2)*.

    If I tried to use the Sega CD in any other mode, things would not look well: there is just too much art involved. For team Sonic, the uncompressed character art takes up 238KB; for team Super, it takes 232.3KB; if I want Sonic to be able to become super, then it is 315.9KB. Add in shields, the signpost, level art, etc., and there remains precious little space for code in each MMD (which is limited to 512KB). Not to mention that I probably would have to make a separate MMD for each and every combination for each and every level so things would fit. Not a good prospect.

    So something like mode 1 could be used. But do note that the Sega CD does not allow more colors than the Genesis; thus, even in the cases mentioned above, the characters might still look different and/or bad for a variety of reasons among them, having very few colors in common. For specific examples, compare Espio's muzzle colors with Sonic's, then compare the reds for both teams and were hese colors (reds and muzzle) are used.

    * I won't implement this in the hack as-is because it would make the game dog-slow -- CPU is already strained with 3 characters without this, adding it would cause lag just about every frame.
     
  4. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    I'm not sure how to trigger it. I myself have never been able to do it... it was posted in the S2 fixes thread.
    EDIT: This is the post. There is an embedded YouTube video showing the bug.
    Cheap shameless KoH plug: This post is right next to a design change of mine. Consider that if you want to. [​IMG]
     
  5. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    That is the bug I fixed; it requires killing Silver Sonic at a precise frame.
     
  6. MotorRoach

    MotorRoach

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    About Team Rose's general palette, I got to work around it and make Big fit to the 16 colors palette.

    [​IMG]

    This is really edited from CN's Big. I might make a better Big sprite (and smaller, in case it's needed) when I have more time.
     
  7. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    WOW! Awesome work Gsuki... I'd actually like to see this in action.
     
  8. flamewing

    flamewing

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    It is an impressive work, I got to hand it to you. But technically, that image has 17 colors; transparency counts on the 16-color limit, and although I can use some pieces from other palette lines, they must either be green (like Knuckles' socks), or use the two brighter ring yellows so they can be used in all levels (and should be restricted to small pieces in either case). Moreover, there are no colors unique to Cream for a super transformation; this is an important factor. I also count a minimum of 34 tiles for that Big; so making him small is a necessity.

    Finally, I kind of think Tikal fits the team better; it helps to provide a better counterpart to the all-male teams.
     
  9. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    Perhaps classic Amy would work given the green shirt and more purple-ish pinks that could almost be traded off as Big's color.

    I tried refining one of the Big sprites a while ago to have more S3-ish proportions, I think it still uses too many colors though and it's still likely too freaking huge (also shows how Tikal will hopefully turn out as well):

    [​IMG]

    I can understand the female team member, as well as the choice of color (not to mention there is at least a decent Tikal sheet available if problems occur), though I guess I can see how Tikal could seem a bit random, being unconnected to Team Rose for the large part. Then again the remaining choices are Vector and Cosmo, one is taken and the other doesn't really have a compatible color scheme.
     
  10. Machenstein

    Machenstein

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    Looking at the sprites above, maybe Bunnie could be in Team Rose. She's not a game universe character, but her robotic parts could lead to some creative gameplay ideas. Perhaps she could use her robotic arm to reach enemies or climb walls in a similar fashion as Ristar.
     
  11. Knucklez

    Knucklez

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    How about Julie-Su?
     
  12. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    Sally, Rabbot, and ____... IDK. Julie-Su would fit here? IDK who the hell that even is...

    Fang, Bean, and I'm drawing another blank.... though that might be trickier due to palettes...

    If one could round those out... they'd be great team ideas. I'd prefer them over a team glitch or team mini...
     
  13. MotorRoach

    MotorRoach

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    Or how about someone considerably official to actually go well with the team?

    I have mixed feelings about Tikal, because I imagine she would be more-so of a Knuckles clone from what I can imagine, not to mention she's not really connected to the team, as Psi said. Blaze would be a little more connected, as she is Cream's friend, and the slow fall she has would kinda make up for gliding, but yeah, flamewing said she won't appear in team Rose.

    I kinda want to see Big in the team because he's the best fckin joke he would be a little more unique. I'll see if I can try removing one color from the palette without screwing things up too much. And, how small would you say he needs to be?

    Sally, Rabbot, and Antoine Rotor.
     
  14. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    Sally, Rabbot, and Mina I guess? I don't really follow Archie Sonic so sorry if this is stupid.

    But Bark fits in with Fang and Bean just fine.
     
  15. Knucklez

    Knucklez

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    Here are all the legitimate teams we can possibly go with:

    Sonic; Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles.

    Chaotix; Espio, Charmy, and Vector.

    Rose; Amy, Cream, and Big/Tikal/Julie-Su.

    Dark; Shadow, Rouge, and Omega/other.

    Fighters; Fang, Bean, and Bark.

    SegaSonic; Sonic, Ray, and Mighty.

    Future; Silver, Blaze, and Marine.

    Babylon; Sky, Storm, and Wave.
     
  16. pablodrago

    pablodrago

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    Well maybe is a silly thought, but I feel that the last member of team rose should be this little fellow

    [​IMG]
    I just thought that ever since Cream is a playable character, in previous games, all Cream attacks/moves are made by Cheese, and I found funny that the power member of the team is a chao
     
  17. Retroman

    Retroman

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    Team Original: Blonic, Blails, Bluckles
     
  18. SpaceyBat

    SpaceyBat

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    Seconded. :v:
     
  19. DinnerSonic

    DinnerSonic

    Never Posting Since 2004! Member
    I personally think that rather than being put on Team Rose where he might struggle to fit within memory limits, Big should be put on his own team. Team Big, with Big as the speed character(working like a giant bowling ball), Big as the power character(Fishing rod? Or just one giant icon taking two slots) and Froggy as flight... or high jump I guess.

    It would fit him in as it'd basically be one large character with some spare tiles for Froggy, make him more unique and more weird fitting how he'd be in mostly for a laugh or joke.
     
  20. MathUser

    MathUser

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    Making a Team big could be a good idea. Big and Froggy would be a good team and it would make sense too. Also, I'd like to see a properly proportioned Big sprite anyway. If only we could think of a third character to go along with them. Also, why not make a Team SatAM? You could include 3 of your favorite SatAM characters and then a fitting character could be added to Team Rose.