Eggman as a genocidal maniac? Hmm. I've always thought that Eggman was just crazy. I've never thought that he ever did anything with the express purpose of killing things. Sure, his plans might have caused the deaths of millions, but I don't think he thinks that far ahead. But he doesn't particularly seem to care when he realizes after the fact, either. At best, I'd call Eggman a psychopathic maniac. He's not above killing something to get what he wants, but he wouldn't make the act of killing the central part of his plan. Besides Sonic. He's tried dozens of times to kill Sonic. Would've done it too, if it weren't for that damn fake chaos emerald. But as noted, he doesn't just want Sonic dead. He wants to beat Sonic, because he's an egomaniac. That's kinda different. I'm just talking about Eggman in the games, mind you.
I'm not getting your argument on this. He still cast Sonic into space with the intention of watching him die.
His goofy manner doesn't mean he can't be serious and dangerous. If anything it shows lack of remorse, not giving a crap about others well being and like everthing is a little game for him. I think we can all agree the Doctor is at his best when he have the controll over the situation but still acts a bit like a clown, specially in his tantrums. Regarding the Death Egg, putting the giant lazer ray from "Battle" aside, I suppose it have some sort (at least the 1º one) of "heat ray" that makes the environment around it hot as hell. (See LRZ Boss)
Considering that Eggman knew damn well that destroying half the moon could detriment the tides significantly, has destroyed entire cities (and presumably killed many people) with monsters, blew up the world, ravished a continent to build an egocentric deathpark, straight busted a few caps in Sally Acorn's ass with a heavy machine gun in the comic, and that he attempts to kill Sonic directly in nearly every game that has a boss battle, I don't think that argument holds much substance.
Not in Lebron's film. At least, not cohesively. Joker and Penguin's eccentric appearances, weaponry, and schemes work because their personalities echo it. That's why people react negatively when comic writers depict Joker as a generic serial murderer and not a cackling madman with a twisted sense of humor: there's no point in having the Joker in the story if he's just some guy in silly clown makeup who kills people. Eggman/Robotnik in the games/comics plastering his face on things, manning an army of inefficient cartoony robots, wanting to remake the world, and dressing like a Disney character works because everything about him screams that he's a kooky egomaniacal manchild with occasional moments of competent villainy to remind you that he's still got a 300 IQ. I don't get that from Lebron's Robotnik: The Robotnik of the first half and the Robotikaisation scene paint a cold Big Brother type villain effective enough to take over the world/city/whatever in 3 months who hides his silly outfit in shadow, and the second shows a guy whose robots come off as so inefficient that it seems he was only able to conquer the world because humanity is just that useless and stupid.
I interpreted this more in the sense of Eggman wanting to kill Sonic off -dramatically-. You know how most antagonists never settle for "just shoot him"? Eggman wanted to crush Sonic's spirit, gloat in his face, put him in a complex James Bond movie-style death trap (With the difference being that if this was normal James Bond, it'd be impossible to escape), and give him a death akin to a "Space Execution" - one that could be seen from by anyone and everyone half the distance between the earth and the moon, so that everyone would know the exact moment Sonic "died" and that the one who killed him was his long time arch-nemesis, and not, say... Mephiles.
I always thought he was more like Doctor Wily, in the sense that he'll kill people, yes, but not directly. Not while looking. Away from the eyes, away from the heart. He would never shoot Sonic cold blank- he can't stomach something like that. More fun to shoot him into space.
I always saw the Robotnik/Eggman in the games as a narcissist, an individual who wants to win, but not in the way that he has to kill people to succeed, but that he wants people to acknowledge that he has won. He's proud of his genius intellect, and wants others to see it, and to see that he has created scenarios so ingenious or commands power so unstoppable that everyone knows that they don't stand a chance against him. Although he's not above using force, he prefers to have admissions of defeat from the people who challenge him rather than kill them outright. I think that that makes Sonic the exception. Sonic has challenged him for so long, and is so adamantly opposed to him, Eggbotnik knows that Sonic will never acknowledge his superiority or his victory. Knowing this, he's more than willing to straight up kill Sonic, whereas he wouldn't with others. The one major time that Sonic admitted defeat (more or less) in SA2 when Eggman had him in the capsule, he still intended to kill him, but he still wanted to do it fantastically, with style, because while Eggman acknowledged that Sonic was an "admirable adversary" he knew he couldn't keep him alive, because he knew that Sonic would stop at nothing to defeat him. Sonic would never admit total defeat, and would never give up; therefore he was a threat that had to be dealt with regardless. He wanted Sonic dead because Eggman was playing a game with him that Sonic refused to play by the rules of, which would be infuriating to anyone. Which is the big difference between game Eggman from SatAM Robotnik. While SatAM still has quite a bit of that narcissism, and would like for people to adhere to his will, he doesn't need admissions of defeat, and has no qualms about killing/roboticizing despite being acknowledged as the winner. He's a tyrant in the more realistic sense that has a high opinion of himself, and doesn't care about the opinion of others. Lebron emulated this style of Robotnik, and as such, he came across as one-dimensional... really, because he is.
What about Unleashed? He launches Sonic into space without a capsule, which would have nearly certainly killed him if it wasn't for Chip's intervention. Considering the Were-travesty had never been seen before by any party, Robotnik could not have predicted he'd survive the fall - merely guessed by his "So long, friend!" quip. Seems too cast off to expect him to die, but a tad sadistic, like he's saying goodbye.
"Is Robotnik A Murderer" - the greatest thread in the history of Sonic Retro, locked by a moderator after 12,239 pages of heated debate,
I would say the difference is that in the SA2 scenario, Sonic was in a no-win situation. In Unleashed, Sonic could still fight, and could still wreck a lot of crap still on-board the shuttle. No admission of defeat, no qualms with outright killing.
^^^This. But seriously. Regardless of what canon you follow, or what off-shoot of Sonicism you believe in, Robotnik/Eggman is a villain who would no doubt do someone dirty if it meant advancing himself, but wouldn't do it just for the sake of doing it. Do we really need to debate this? Next we're going to debate whether or not Sonic is a hero or a mischief maker. Oh god what did I start...
On that note, I would like to add that SatAM Robotnik had slight characterization changes in Season 2... which, funnily enough, gave him a slightly closer-to-the-games characterization. In particular, he has more of a fixation on outperforming Sonic specifically, he'll put him in elaborate traps and gloat in his face when "just shooting him" would be more pragmatic (although the specific example I'm thinking of is kind of the inverse of the SA2 example here), and he has more "immature" moments such as temper tantrums (Down to his last moments in the show being a AoStH reference). Course, Season 2 toned down some of the "dark edge" from Season 1 in other ways, too (Especially by, well, letting the Freedom Fighters finally have victories), so I suppose that just goes with the territory.
I loved season 1 so much. It was still kiddy, but pretty fucking epic when you were 9 and watching it. I really wish the show grew up with its audience and put something on Cartoon Network or something. Something even more dark.
This movie trailer made me wish Jim Varney was still alive. Giving Ernest a role in this movie would fit together so well.
Starting with Unleashed Eggman's character did change from what he used to be. In every game from Sonic Adventure to Sonic 2006 he backs out at the last moment and decides to help Sonic when the monster of the week he got from somewhere goes out of control. In Unleashed he doesn't do this, he literally tears the planet apart and wakes up Dark Gaia so he can make an amusement park called Eggmanland. In Colours he enslaves the entire population of several planets to again, make an amusement park and also to defeat Sonic. In Generations he almost destroys time and space to make it so Sonic didn't win against him. He has pretty much gone insane in the last few games and now wants to rule the world and defeat Sonic even if it means destroying everything.
Yeah, he has gone slightly crazier, but also more bumbling and comedic. Maybe those last few defeats really screwed him up...
I think I've seen someone posting (no idea where or in which forums) that the Eggman now is more like the Eggman in the manuals for the japanese versions of the Mega Drive classics.
Bump. Retsupurae did a commentary on the Fan Film. Also, Eddie Lebron likes the Retsupurae commentary. Whoops?
