Probably wouldn't have mattered. With Sony coming out swinging with 3D and Nintendo teasing 3D with Mario 64, Sega would have taken Sonic kicking and screaming into 3D.
I can't wait for Sonic CD 2. Just as we imagined it: with a Homing Attack, Bubbles, and the triangles from Palmtree Panic not lining up correctly on slopes. And green eyes I guess, but we've gotten over that by now, right? Right? Guys?
@GeneHF: True, but what I wanted to ask was what a 2D Sonic game in 1995 would've looked like that improved on Knuckles Chaotix's visual 32-bit style, and how SEGA could pursue something like that for downloadable Sonic titles in the future. Case in point: Contra 4 (not downloadable but relevant) and Contra: ReBirth. The first was a very well-executed full-on HD remake of Contra with better music, better graphics, boss battles done right, and even cliched macho action hero voicework. The latter also had great music, but it was essentially a medley of memorable songs from Contra games on the NES and Genesis, and the art style was strictly 32-bit(?) sprite artwork. Also it was an original game with awesome playable characters. Sonic 4's art style was beautiful and super-HD in the screen shots, but employed too much shine and looked way too static in-game, and the music was less than impressive. Also the juxtaposition of non-prerendered characters with static prerendered backgrounds was an unnecessarily clash in the art direction, and Sonic looked kinda bland with only a few flat shades of blue to cover him, not to mention how thrilled he seems when he's working up to a run.
What I'm not liking on the whole Sonic 4 thingy is that it tries to be, well, like the classics. Seriously, it has to try to feel like an out-dated game! I mean, c'mon, a 2D Sonic game on the PS3/360? It would have been old on the Saturn even. I can't help but feel like SEGA wouldn't even give a shit about making a good 3D game for once, before trying to go "back to the roots". I know, I know, there are "quite decent" ones out there, but Sonic Team never tried to further test themselves out, or they just flat out exaggerate the whole thing (a friggin werehog, anyone?)... Did they ever try to translate the feeling, design (oh yes, pretty please) and atmosphere of the first games into 3D, actually? For instance, I always felt that the Sonic OVA adapted this into a movie plot quite good, so it already is good material to work with. Christ, why the heck decided Sonic Team to change it anyways? Because they hated the heavy American influence on the franchise, which made it actually successful?
Feeling? What did they change? Sonic has remained heavy on the western influences all along. Arguably, it's become even more western since Sonic Adventure. The cartoons, films and comics don't come in to it, because they're not games, regardless of who created/wrote/directed them. I feel like Sonic Heroes did a pretty good job of bringing Sonic in to 3D, as did all of Sonic's 3D stages. Other games like Sonic Colours have also done a decent job. Unfortunately, no matter how you slice it, 2D Sonic feels different in 3D- If it were to be like for like, it would be more sluggish, and the whole idea would change as you're given 360 degrees to go anywhere, rather than a specific path. Sonic World gave us a pretty good idea of what it would be like, but that wasn't/isn't exactly fast, and it's a sandbox. Consider that a like for like 3D Sonic game would be very similar to Mario, and, well, you may as well go and buy Mario. Everything gets updated to keep up with the time, and the speed increase in the games has had to match this change. Lastly, sorry, outdated? I happen to think that the pre-Dreamcast Sonic's have aged bloody well. Given the fact they're constantly rereleasing them, and people are constantly buying them, as well as the fact that Sonic Advance series, Sonic Rush, a large part of Generations, and the entire 'new' Sonic 4 are based on them pretty much goes to show how successful and universal they've been. Technically outdated? Yes. Outdated as a game? No. The issue with Sonic 4 isn't that it's 2D, it's that it has fundamentally flawed physics and often feels like corners have been cut.
Too bad (for your post) the Genesis games aren't outdated. They've aged better than games like Sonic Adventure. Megaman 9 and 10 went back to the "outdated" days and it was delivered beautifully. Not every game needs to be super high definition 3D you know.
What..?! Wait... no! I'm sorry, I guess I could have used proper words. It's not always easy for me finding the right terms to express what I'm trying to say in a foreign language. Of course I meant technically outdated. Seriously, I even bought the Sega MegaDrive Collection for the PS3 (one of two games I actually own for it) just because of the Sonic games. :v: But what I meant is, play Super Mario Bros. 1 - 3, Super Mario World and then Super Mario 64, all of them feel like a Mario game. The sounds, the looks, it's all different, but it's Mario. Of course, Super Mario 64 has different gameplay as the ones in 2D, that's not what I'm criticizing, you can't just simply translate that from 2D to 3D. But that's just what Nintendo back then did right, they gave Mario so much awesome new moves, instead of just making it 3D. The first time I saw SA on the Dreamcast (quite early, my father's friend got connections to Japan and got one before the US/EU release date) I was just... so not interested. I remember the first thing I thought was "why the hell is Sonic in the city, jumping from roof to roof?". It had changed way too much. For me at least. And I still have the feeling today.
We all talk about Dimps like we know them. The problem is, we don't know them. We don't know who's making the bad decisions inside Dimps. We don't know if Dimps lost their original Sonic Advance dev team just like Sonic Team lost their original dev team over the years. To me, Dimps is a confused kitten getting feedback about how a Sonic game should be from multiple directions: Sonic Team want homing attack and extreme speed. Sega of America want classic levels and their newly created story (the store and the name Sonic 4 must be because of some SoA worker/Sonic fan finally got a chance to change the story after own liking?). Sega Sonic fans want something to reboot Sonic. Retro Sonic fans want old gameplay. (Note, that is an approximation of what people want. Not the actual list that would make a Sonic game successful, nor making it a moneymaker deal). What happens is a unique mix of crap known as Sonic 4. And it doesn't matter if it sucks or not, as Sega is making money out of you when you buy it after reading magazine reviews saying "This is the Sonic you have all been waiting for", and seeing shitty pasted sprites in Sonic 4 trailers. What Dimps has done is quite interesting, as there are now bottomless pits warning signs (awesome design if you ask me, using old death sprite as road sign) in Sonic Generation 3DS. That means they are still very confused about the whole bottomless pit discussion. If Sonic 4 Episode 2 was designed after Sonic Generations 3DS (which I doubt), there will be fixes such as bottomless pit warnings, and possible classic physics. But Sonic 4 Episode 2's level layout was probably made long before Episode 1 was released, which means the same physics must apply, or they'll lose money. We all knew the levels of Sonic 4 Episode 1 were completed about 6 months before the release, so what would their level designers be up to during those 6 months? My suggestion to all fans reading this is to support The Taxman's Sonic CD port which will be released by Sega soon. Support it and ignore Sonic 4, and that way they can ONLY make money on the thing that we really want, so please ignore Sonic 4 Episode 2 unless you can emulate it and try it out first. Or play test the whole game before you buy it. Else you will just confuse the situation more. Sega, Sonic Team, and Dimps all respond to money first hand.
LOst, from what I've read over the past few months, the work on Episode 2 only started in February (I assume to see if it would be worth the effort based on the reaction/sales of Ep1), so who knows how it will turn out. They created this in true Episodic form unlike Sonic 3 Part II...and we all know the story behind that :/ As far as the bottomless pit warning signs, I thought it was freaking cleaver! It erases all doubt about something being down below.
I'm with you LOst. Sonic 4 E2 is a beast the fans created by buying the first one, let's kill it by ignoring the second. All the people who absolutely love Sonic 4, fine. But it's the idiots who say "Sonic 4 looks terrible... oh well I'll buy it anyway" are as big a part of the problem as Iizuka/Dimps. In short, instead of buying 3 copies of episode 2, buy 6 copies of Christian's Sonic CD.
Pretty sure he's going off of Iizuka's quote. Something along the lines of "Episode II will have a much bigger budget than Episode I because of how many people actually bought it." Also, Iizuka will probably NEVER use the Retro-Engine ever. Why? He doesn't want to be 1uped by a fan—A fan who has created a better physics engine for no cost other than a bit of his free time while Sonic Team of Japan has spent thousands on an engine that has crappy physics...
Because I know better than to believe otherwise. You're not seriously expecting a classic masterpiece from these clowns are you? Look, this back-and-forth game has already been played to death last year, let us learn from it. "Wait to see it before you judge it" followed by "You can't judge it based on 5 seconds of footage!!" followed by "You can't judge an early bulid, they're fixing it" followed by "Wait to play the demo before you judge it" followed by "You can't know how good it is till you play the whole game" by which time Sega has your money, and the game indeed sucks. And then... "That was only episode 1! You can't judge Sonic 4 based on that, they'll improve episode 2!"
I've always thought buying multiple copies of the same game just to get an internet shout-out was utterly stupid. Buying multiple copies of the same game in order to support what you like and make a point, on the other hand, is somewhat less so, but still pretty wasteful unless there are differences in the gameplay experience between versions OR there's also an identical handheld version. Even if there are differences, chances are they won't be huge. If you want to buy a game you really like multiple times, fine. That's up to you. But ask yourself how much of a difference you're making in the bottom line with the extra $15, $30, or $60 you spend that you could've used to feed yourself or buy condoms. How many other people would do the same as you? The answer is relatively close to zero, because most people tend to be thrifty and just buy one copy of a game to play, since that's all they need to play it, unlike the bourgeousie class who might as well just buy stocks in the company they like and demand certain games rather than buying multiple copies of the same game. Seriously, unless you intend on buying it as a gift, stick to one copy. Friendly advice.
Yeah, you totally lost me there. Super Mario 64 is about as about half as much like Super Mario World as Sonic Adventure is like Sonic 3. With Mario, they changed pretty much everything about the designs, how the game played, what established enemies actually tended to do, and even the core of the objectives. Super Mario Galaxy swings it back around a little, but not nearly all the way to the point of being a simple point A to point B platform game like the classics are.
I'll agree Mario 64 contains the same basic elements of 2D Mario- he jumps, crouches, swims and flies through the same sort of environments. Everything other than that is different. The pace is basically the same, but that's easy to acheive when you're given an open world with the ability to explore and do nearly anything you desire. The 3D Mario games are as non-linear as you can get, the complete opposite of the 2D games. Sonic on the other hand continued towards his main goal- running, jumping and spinning through a set course to reach it. Yeah, maybe adventure fields were introduced, and the ability to play as other characters with their own little play styles, but the core has remained the same- even now in Colours and Generations. The issue people have is that the enviroments have become slightler more realistic looking. Sonic jumping over rooves on a peice of metal is very different to a chibi Sonic running through a cute little city level with nice music and starry skies, but then, most levels in Sonic are different from the last, and we're always brought back to something familiar anyway, which continues the feel that we're in the same series.
Talking about the classic and modern environments is nice but what's it have to do with Episode 2? I hope they get rid of the excessive special fx Sonic had in Ep 1 (dust while running, that weird blur that messes up graphics while you run, etc.). The spin dash needs to be fixed too; you blast off at high speed with just one rev. (these are things I haven't heard people address as much recently)
