The Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Megathread

She's actually correct on the difference between the classic Sonic and the more modern depiction of Sonic. Classic Sonic might have changed as well but they were more subtle than radical. She's not commenting on those differences but the extreme changes between what we call classic and modern.

 

Woah, character design again?

Again, I don't see the problem.
To me, it just looks like Sonic got a bit older; he's taller, thinner, and has longer quills.
I do understand the problems with that smile. It looks.....wierd, which is odd, because they got his smile right after Heroes' ridiculous "Nike face"
The whole thing with his limbs being so long now, is kinda not necessary. I mean I mentioned how his newer design makes him look older than previously, it sort of makes sense to do that.
On that note, I also feel that the idea that his legs are too thick, is equally unecessary. I mean how can he support that HUGE body and head of his, with tiny little legs as in the classics. Trust me, it would look really wierd. Just picture modern Sonic with shorter thinner limbs.....What they did was to keep the proportions looking at least somewhat stable.
The head....well all I can say is, at least its smaller than his Heroes model. Maybe they should shrink the spines, but not too much, because that would look very odd, espcially in 3D.
As for the issue with the eyes......Really someone can slip the green onto the classic model and it wouldn't make much of a difference at all.

Anyhow, I don't really care. If it does to you, then fine. I don't see the problem. Is it because he looks to "old", or he doesn't look as "innocent" as he did in those classic Japanese renders (the old American renders for the classics looked horrible)? Aside from the retarded smile, I really don't get the problem, his model looks exceptional, especially in Sonic Unleashed.

Also, if anyone has "MAYA" CGI modelling software, or any other type of modelling software, could you possibly make a 3D version of the Classic design?
It would at least give us an idea of how well the Classic design translated into the 3^rd dimension.
I'm pretty sure SEGA must have made a 3D Classic model before settling on the idea of an entire redesign....

 

I'd say they had a 3D model too.

 

The thing is, I can't seem to notice anything that obvious between classic and new beyond smaller body and green eyes, maybe the spikes but maybe that is stretching it, as those have changed a lot. Tail stubbiness, eyebrow ridge, nose length... Sure I can see the differences (I liked the longer tail and close to non existance of the ridge of Sonic 1 artwork myself) but those don't seem more radical changes than Sonic getting shinier from 1 to 2 to 3, so nitpicking at them while not nitpicking within the changes in the classic models doesn't make sense to me. That was what I was trying to say.

Not Maya, but it's classic Sonic in 3D.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW5AkBjxbt4

That and Sonic 2 and CD's special stages, Sonic 3D (has awful long legs there)...

 

Yeah. Sonic does look kind of dodgy with those really thin legs in that video. The hands and feet are also quite large, maybe not as large as the Modern design but large nonetheless.
I think, I understand, that from a design point of veiw, the New design looks better in a 3D environment than the classic one did. The Sonic 3D model didn't look good....at all.
Also, based on that Sonic 3 sprite sheet, I'd say the New design doesn't really look that different (thats right, I said it). The main difference is in the Promotional art.
Perhaps the new design has longer quills, but that honetly doesn't make much difference at all.

 

I was 'nitpicking' because I was learning to draw Sonic and co. The first style I learned to draw was from Sonic Advanced, and then I looked at art from Sonic 3 and noticed they were very different. The differences in classic art aren't as drastic a contrast as the modern design. One of the most noticeable difference is Tails is no longer an orange but a piss yellow with orange in there somewhere with the wrong color of shoes and limbs too long to be a little kid. (No, I do not think the token child of a series is supposed to grow up when you're working with art rendered characters that don't grow by default.) and everyone's longer now. Sonic's quills look weird and more like long hair, Knuckles' body is too small, and the only character the changes look right on are Robotnik since he looks more like a human.

I have more problems with the Modern style than anyone will ever know, because the classics did look more innocent, like cute animal plushies that needed hugs and had a style all their own that didn't need to look proportionally accurate and they all looked like animals, not humans in badly made plastic costumes, and the coloration was so vibrant. None of this monotone shit you get today that takes away the beauty of the artwork and makes it bland and uninteresting.

And damn it that Mario Sonic model looks awesome. THAT'S how Sonic is supposed to look. I wouldn't mind eyecolor, but THAT'S a cute hedgehog meant to roll up in a ball, not a badly made plastic thing without it's unique style with the charm that made the classic style so appealing. But they're not giving us that choice, and because of the huge amount of modern, retarded looking Sonic over Classic fans, they never will. We're never going back to the good style, we're stuck with this generic shit without the personality of the art the older art has, which is why we're eternally fighting a war uphill against too many modern fans that probably came in on Sonic because they thought Sonic Heroes of Shadow the Hedgehog was epic.

 

You know something, you guys? I'm thinking Sega might have taken some ideas for Sonic 4 straight from Tweaker's Sonic Megamix hack. I say this because....
1) The Homing attack was started in the platformer games by Dimps with Sonic Advance 2, but that would only be active when you are close near an enemy. In Sonic Megamix, we were given the option to use the Homing Attack throughout any of the levels in the game while playing as Sonic.
2) The "two bosses" feature. Sonic Megamix 4.0 has 2 bosses in every 3rd act of all the zones featured in the hack, whereas in Sonic 4, this same rules apply.
3) There's three acts in each zone in Sonic 4. The whole "Three acts" feature was resurrected by Tweaker's Sonic Megamix hack, which probably caused Sega to add 3 acts to each zone in response.

tl;dr - Don't blame Sega for screwing up parts of Sonic 4, blame ourselves with Sonic Megamix inspiring most of Sonic 4.

 

1) Or it might just be because the homing attack is pretty standard these days. Sonic 4 is trying to be something that the Advance and Rush games weren't. Advance 1 was the first 2D game after a long drought too, so it really was basically classic style with new designs. This is also the first 2D title since S&K to be marketed as the next installment in the series. Even if it is just a side project for the developers, it's a main game, unlike all of the handhelds.
2) See Advance 2/3 and the Rush games. They all have the two-tired boss system.
3) Advance 3 had a three act structure, and so did Rivals 2. Half the time in S4 the second act is a gimmick stage, and this was always the case in Rivals 2. Making four zones at three acts each is much easier than making 6 zones at 2 acts each. Less art needs to be produced.
4) Modern Sonic?

 

Sonic Team is supposed to be a world class development studio. If they did make the inspired decision to include the Homing Attack in Sonic 4 because of Megamix, that doesn't make it Megamix's fault for existing and having it. They would never admit that anyway.

Beides, the Megamix comparisons were drawn months ago. Unfortunately, you can't compare Sonic 4's physics engine to that to Megamix. Maybe they should have taken that instead, then they could see how a real physics engine works.

 

How is explaining the design changes to you nitpicking? She's pointing out the differences between old and new Sonic. The changes between the old design has nothing to do with it. You can't tip-toe around the argument just because you don't care about certain areas and then switch the subject to her being hypocritical over something not even related.

Yes there were adjustments with old Sonic, but that's not the question. The question is what is different between old and new.

Everything she pointed out is there whether you care or not doesn't make it irrelevant.

 

Blame ourselves because a group's talent has made a game developers maybe make a potentially sub-par game? No.

Far as I recall, there were not two bosses per zone in Megamix. And three acts? I would argue they aren't three "true" acts in Sonic 4. The last act is really just the boss fight.

 

From what I've seen, the bosses are planned to have a 'normal' phase, followed by another phase, just as in Sonic 4.

Which is exactly the point, since there are four acts in Sonic 4, the last of which is the boss act.

 

There are three acts in Sonic 4. There is a separate act entirely for the boss called "Boss Act". I don't know where you got this idea from.

 

Ah yes, of course. My mistake. I haven't been salivating over the leaked videos.

 

Bluntly, Megamix is very generic; the idea behind the game is to take gameplay elements and material from other Sonic games and put them together in a unique and refreshing way. Sonic 4 is more or less following that exact same goal, so of course you're going to be able to draw some parallels. That doesn't mean that Sonic 4 is ripping off Megamix, nor does it mean that it's anyone's "fault" for the game's content being generic in nature. I'd have thought this would be obvious, but I guess I was wrong.

This is part of the reason I always thought calling the game Sonic 4 was stupid—there's nothing wrong with the kind of game they're making, but trying to call it Sonic 4 is an insult and horribly underwhelming.

 

they should call it Sonic 4Ever

 

Ahh, yes.
I do agree with you there Tweaker, but there are a few things.
What else could they have called it? Sonic Advance 4 would have made no sense, Sonic Rush 3 would have made no sense, they were both Handheld series' so it would seem out of place.
I can understand that some may think they should have had a new name entirely, but that wouldn't have grabbed our attention as much as something like...."Mew Sonic the Hedgehog" sould have. Sure it would have had some attention, most likely more positive from the retro crowd, but not one the scope that "Sonic 4" has brought.
Sonic 4 has divided many "hardcore" (for lack of a better word) fans. Some like it, others hate it, but it grabbed massive attention.
The reveal that Dimps was also involved, brought even more attention (and hatred). The title "Sonic 4", backed up with Dimps' involvement has proved to be such a great attention grabber, that many have lost sight of, what in the name of hell Sonic Team themselves, are doing.
I touched upon this in my other topic. I consider Sonic 4 to be a distraction, so that Sonic Team, can do whatever they're doing, under wraps, with all the scrutiny being dropped on Dimps and Sonic 4.
It isn't really a great prospect, thinking that Sonic 4 is a mere distraction, but if my hypothesis is correct, then this would probably been one of SEGA "smartest" moves, in terms of marketing. So far, SEGA have hyped every major Sonic outing with massive fanfare, only to leave dissapointment.
The idea, that for once, SEGA have decided to play it smart, and not hype up the next major Sonic game,(which may or may not be released on the 20th anniversary) is really rather encouraging.

But I stress that this is all just a hypothesis, so don't take my word for it (though I doubt most of you will).

 

So I was thinking, why 4 Acts? The 4th Act is simply a boss act and after the boss is defeated Act 3's music plays. Were they being lazy by not programming level events for a boss in Act 3? Or was this simply another Dimps thing, since they haven't done the classic boss entry method since Sonic Advance.

 

Probably to make it so you can't use Super Sonic during the bosses? I dunno.

The Game Gear games and 3D Blast did the same thing.