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Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Athelstone, Apr 24, 2008.

  1. RamiroR

    RamiroR

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    I'd just agree to do it with OpenGL, as it's very easy to do an engine that use *.ASE files, if someone would want to do an engine, I shall be more interested about it, as some days before I've been at trip.
     
  2. Vincent

    Vincent

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    Hi RamiroR,

    A proof of concept would be great to make us choose to resort either on full 3D or 2D pre-renders.
    So, anyone willingly to write this "proof of concept" Special Stage, (like Ultima did with his sonic-unrelated "cel shading demo") step forward! ^^


    To those attempting this feat:

    -OpenGL would be a perfect mate.
    -A basic 3D scrolling tube, with sideturns is preferred.
    -Special Stages will need to keep the cartoony feeling, just like this: [​IMG]


    Good luck! :)
     
  3. steveswede

    steveswede

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    I found one bug with the engine. I don't know if it has been noticed but around 11 seconds on the sonic timer, sonic just flies off the platform for no reason. You do have to be facing into the platform on the tip for it to happen. I've done a video to show what happens.

    Bug
     
  4. The special stage should be made with tube sections, a bit like roller coaster tycoon.
     
  5. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    Can't you just put it on YouTube?
     
  6. LOst

    LOst

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    If it is a bug or not, I cannot tell, because it is this way in Sonic 3, and not in Sonic 2. And for a good reason, faster development of platform objects. It was a choice that can be changed for S2HD pretty easy, or even fixed without having to change back to the Sonic 2 engine system.

    I do know about most TD problems, and many of the problems will be fixed before or during Beta testing.
     
  7. Are you going to change to Direct2D to render the graphics?
     
  8. LOst

    LOst

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    No. I feel that Direct2D is just another layer farther away from the driver. I will keep compatibility with Windows 2000 and Windows XP, which means I will stay at Direct3D 9c.

    It will always be possible to support a new render, such as Direct3D 10 and 11. But Direct2Di s not what we want, as MSDN says:
     
  9. I see. It's just that since this is a 2D game, you'd think that it would be perfect for S2HD, but I suppose it's more suited for apps like Firefox.
     
  10. I don't remember whether this was discussed earlier in the thread or not, but every (or nearly every) HD game is mixed in surround sound these days. Are we supporting 5.1 in the engine?
     
  11. steveswede

    steveswede

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    It would be a nice touch for the 5.1 owners. But in all honesty it's better to stick with stereo. I would say if the game had a 3dimentional environment, then 5.1 would be a plus to have. To me, this is too 2D for that to be a useful gimmick. But think about it as well. Some DAW, namely FL studio is only stereo. That would mean me and others would have to bounce down multi tracks into something like Acid Pro or Nuendo just to add it. And all the other submissions that have been done would need redoing for it to work.
     
  12. steveswede

    steveswede

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    I've been thinking about some things recently. Like things that I think would be a balance system for vs levels. What about Sonic and Tails having their Sonic 3 abilities. or even some others to be a git to the opponent. Like if Tails was flying, Sonic or Knuckles could grab onto his arms to get a sneaky high jump off him. Or, Sonic and Tails could grab onto Knuckles back when he's climbing a wall or stand on him when he's gliding.

    I've also been thinking about the aspect ratio. It's been mentioned about having 16:9 and the problem with that is the screen area you can go in when facing some bosses. What about extending some of the arenas. Like in ARZ. Just move the pilers out more. Or in CPZ. Just extend the middle section so the moving platforms at the end don't get altered. It's been a while since the aspect ratio was talked about so I wonder what you are going to do to get around this if your aiming for the 16:9 aspect.
     
  13. Exodus

    Exodus

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    The topic of aspect ratio has been thoroughly discussed (however I believe not concluded). "Extending" the boss areas has been suggested before however the problem with this is that they will no longer match the original Sonic 2. This could be problematic for many players such as speed runners
     
  14. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

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    Good point exodus. However, I think that our major quarrel is with a Sonic that is as fat as a modern American, and a Eggman that now resembles that guy from Jak II. Perhaps, if at all possible, one could allow the stage to be streched, but adjust the sprites to not anger everyone. Or you can be like CNN by simply filling the extra space on the sides with artwork, supplementary hud elements, or heck:
    Allow me to reference lightly another great game—Gunstar heroes. If you remember the level after you crash land the emperor's spaceship, think to how all the previous bosses of the game were standing at the bottom of the screen
    watching you on a giant monitor. Without going to such an extreme, maybe all the flickies and whatnot you rescue could play over there in the side margins.

    Or instead of extending the boss areas, why not just put up some invisible barriers, or make the side margins appear only then? That would certainly quell the common speed runner, so I think.
     
  15. MaximusDM

    MaximusDM

    Sonic 2HD - Concept Artist Member
    Well assuming that widescreen only affects boss fights and nothing on the programing/actual screen rendering. Lets look at the boss fights.

    Emerald Hill Zone: No problem.
    [​IMG]
    The screen scrolls already during the boss fight. Widescreen will work perfectly fine.
    Only difference is that instead of the screen scrolling with you it will likely just be stationary since you can see everything already via widescreen. If not, then it just needs to change the way the screen pans to compensate for widescreen.

    Chemical Plant Zone: Possibly problematic.
    [​IMG]
    But there are flipping floor tiles off screen as seen when Robotnik flies off after the boss fight. The question is, if it reaches the edge of a widescreen view. If not, I suppose more could be added but I don't know the technical part of doing that so who knows.

    Aquatic Ruin Zone: This is a problem and was already discussed.
    [​IMG]
    You would need to create another barrier to stop Sonic from falling into a pit that he can't get out of, have invisible borders, or maybe put a spring down there to launch you back up.

    Casino Night Zone: No problem.
    [​IMG]
    The level acts as a barrier. I would even leave the screen scrolling to Sonic.

    Hill Top Zone: No problem.
    [​IMG]
    Same as Emerald Hill Zone. The screen scrolls during the boss battle.

    Mystic Cave Zone: This is a problem.
    [​IMG]
    When the rocks fall down, it needs to cover the entire widescreen. The other problem is Robotnik, he only attacks from one side of the 4:3 screen to the other. He would either need to be changed to attack the full length of the widescreen, or borders are needed in this fight.

    Oil Ocean Zone: No problem.
    [​IMG]
    The screen scrolls during the boss battle.

    Metropolis Zone: This is a problem.
    [​IMG]
    His attacks operate on a 4:3 screen. I don't remember if the balloons he uses bounce of the edge of the screen. But if they do, they would need to be changed to the borders of widescreen. Robotnik would need to be changed to go to both sides of the widescreen or borders are needed.

    Sky Chase Zone: Possibly problematic.
    [​IMG]
    The zone is self scrolling and you are confined to a 4:3 space. So changing it to widescreen, enemies would need to begin attacking you from the moment they enter the 16:9 screen instead of 4:3 screen. And with less need for reaction time as you will see more screen, it makes the zone far easier than it already is.

    Wing Fortress Zone: No problem.
    [​IMG]
    The screen scrolls and the level creates its own barrier.

    Death Egg Zone: Possibly problematic.
    [​IMG]
    While the entrance does close it self, I don't know about the right side as it seems open post boss fight. The boss fights in a 4:3 screen and I don't know if the hit box extends to the point where it wouldn't matter if you tried to stand in the extra space provided by widescreen. So the boss would need to extend itself a little further to fill the room.

    Final Boss: No problem.
    [​IMG]
    The screen scrolls during the boss battle.
     
  16. For the non-scrolling bosses, we'd most likely use a vertical letterbox. We can't make it look fancy, because that would be distracting.
     
  17. This is probably a stupid suggestion, but How about if someone chooses to play the game in 4:3 then why not a boarder that was, if not black, darker and featured, oh I don't know, maybe a storyboard of the levels, similar to the stage select screen. OR even the original stage select screens, a 16bit nod. Maybe they become brighter as you complete the zone previous. Or maybe something like concept art from the development process. Now tell me why this is RETARDED



    SARAH PALIN IS RETARDED
     
  18. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

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    Hey guys, these parts have already been discussed. Just sayin'...

    +=EDIT=+
    Why not make the sides of the vertical letterbox (wait for it)

    FROSTED GLASS!

    I mean, mirror just the terrain and background to fill the side region, then apply a blur of sorts. Therefore the original game window will still stay 4:3, and us with widescreen monitors won't have to deal with static-or no-images at the sides, and it would be a nice visual touch, and make it the game, whilst still classic and retro, have a modern flare to it. I mean, this route has to be easily possible, using OpenGL and all.
     
  19. I know. But I don't recall the discussion having an outcome?
     
  20. Seriously?!? When the camera locks you'll just fade in two huge black stripes at both sides? Isn't that distracting enough? It's not only distracting, but it also gives the impression that the team didn't succeed in making a widescreen game, since it momentarily switches back to 4:3. That's a pretty half-assed solution guys...

    I think invisible barriers are much less invasive. Just show whatever is before and after the boss arena (which is often just ground, nothing weird), but don't let Sonic go there until the boss is defeated. People who have already played Sonic 2 will quickly realize the function of the invisible barriers, and people who haven't will have at most 3 or 4 seconds of "WTF" before accepting that this is how the game works and moving on with their lives.