Project Needlemouse: old threads

Regarding my article linked somewhere in this mess...

The suspicious part for me personally was when he kept going on and on about the notion of "hardcore" and sprinkled XBLA and PSN in there almost as an analogy. I don't remember a similar analogy being put forth for the Wii to contrast, but I could be wrong.

The real telling part, though, was when he paused after the XBLA / PSN reference...almost like he wasn't supposed to say that specifically. That usually means something.

 

Didn't a Boy and his Blob just come out on Wiiware the other day?

You know what gets me riled up? When people start talking about what can and can not be done within the limitations of a certain amount of disk space without having any idea what they are benchmarking against. I don't think I need to point out that the Wii being an SD-only console would put a pretty hard limit on just how large the "hand-drawn" graphics (as if that ever made a difference) can really be.

 

Boy and his Blob is a full retail release.

 

Oh, for some reason I was under the impression it was Wiiware. Don't know how I got that into my head...

In any event, the idea of squeezing SD sprites and tilesets into a 50-100 megabyte package for a full-length game isn't really much of a stretch.

 

Actually, Yash, I was not referring to Wii Sports. I like Wii Sports. I was referring to the mountains of minigame collections and exergames that sell like hotcakes on the Wii platform.

Also, we don't know what they mean by HD. It could simply mean hand drawn at any resolution, or it could literally mean hand drawn in high definition. Then again it could mean fully 3D modeled in high resolution.

 

Fair enough, that game in particular seems to attract the most whining so I assumed you meant that.

You're right, carnival games and game party and the like are dumb shit, but you'll find that even the new Wii owners have standards and those games' sequels haven't recreated that same success. I'm kind of a sales nerd so I keep tabs on that.

 

*Sigh* Come on people. Okay if you are a nastalgia fan, why do you have such a hatred for the nintendo wii just for not having hd graphics? It DOES have better graphicis than the last gen consoles. They shouldn't even have to redisign the game completly. All they'd have to do is numb the graphics down to the wii's potential, and keep the level design intact, like they apear to be doing with Sonic and SEGA ASR. And another thing, Why would you all be so happy if the game weren't on Wii? I mean, I own a Wii AND a PS3, and if this game comes out for both consoles (along with 360 of course), I'd probably get the ps3 version anyway. Besides, I'm not selfish, and I'd really like to see nintendo fans happy with they're sonic game. Why should nintendo fans have to spend 200-300 dollors on a console just to play one game.

EDIT: Basicly I agree with Shadow Hog and Yash. There are alot of random games for wii, but that's no reason to bash the console itself claiming "it does't have any hardcore games and it sucks because it's not an hd console".
Also, to NickAVV, even if you were joking, snes doesn't even have better graphics than GBA. How could you possibly say such a thing?

 

Here's what I don't get.

1) Lots of casual BS games come out for the Nintendo Wii. Everyone complains that no good games come out for the console.
2) Somebody announces an exclusive title for the Nintendo Wii. People immediately start complaining that it should have come out for the 360 and PS3, NOT the Wii, because the Wii is only good for casual BS games.

Does nobody know the meaning of "self-fulfilling prophecy"?

 

The only people I know that actually hate the Wii hate it because of its controller. A girl I know who plays almost nothing but RPGs cringes at the thought of waggling a remote around in an RPG. She's a bit disappointed about Dragon Quest X being developed for Wii instead of PS3 because she likes her normal controller instead of trying something new. There are other people who also don't want to get a little arm excercise while gaming and prefer sticking to their fingers and thumbs. Even the Nintendo DS makes her annoyed because she doesn't like handhelds at all either and is turned off by the touch screen innovation. She got mad that so many good RPG sequels were put on a system she doesn't like the feel of.

I guess that's what happens when people are not willing to leave their comfort zone.

As far as this Sonic game goes, I'd like to see them just concentrate on one version to start it off with and make sure they get that one right. If it turns out good they can always port it to the Wii later. A good Sonic game could be a good way to drive more PS3 and Xbox 360 sales when Wii is still at the top.

 

I don't care much for the Wii, although I care a little more than I did last generation with the Gamecube. I don't have any games that I can stay interested in for more than an hour (Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, WarioWare, Super Smash Bros., and Animal Crossing), and there's just something not right about emulating older games on the virutal console (especially Sonic 1). I actually downloaded a lot of games for that thing, something I feel stupid for doing because now I can't sell it without losing like $150 on downloaded games alone (not to mention selling my physical games as used even though I didn't play them much.)

 

You could just charge for the built-in games and list them as included games in your sale. Sell it as a lot that way.

 

Well, for one, it doesn't show it. For two, "better graphics" is entirely subjective. I think having dedicated video memory which isn't large enough to hold a single 720p framebuffer is considerably INFERIOR compared to the original Xbox, which had a unified memory structure (and thus could render in 720p).

Third, it's painfully obvious that those arguing for the wii have no idea how game design works. Especially the reaction to the CoD screenshot. "Pre-beta?" I'd expect that kind of talk on a casual gaming website like NeoGAF, but here? Where all we do is dissect prototypes? You should know that "pre-beta" flat out doesn't make sense. Pre-Beta is the planning phase. Any screenshot you ever see, provided it's not a mock up (which those weren't, they've been seen in motion) cannot be "Pre-beta." Unless you meant Alpha, in which case those are NOT alpha shots. Those were shown long after the game was announced, and seen in motion.

Fourth, you can't just "dumb down the graphics." It's not like there's a knob you can turn which will keep everything running the same but lower the graphic fidellity. The Wii just doesn't have the power the PS3 or 360 have. Even with a game like SASR, you can't literally get the game running on the Wii by simply "numbing the graphics." Or Sonic Unleashed. The fact of the matter is that the 360 and PS3 often run middleware engines which the Wii cannot run. There's numerous examples of this. Sonic Unleashed uses the hedgehog engine for both the 360 and PS3 versions, and an entirely different engine for the Wii version. Same with just about every capcom game - the MT Engine is 360 and PS3 only, no wii. Whenever there is a wii port, it's always built from the ground up for the wii, and uses, at most, the same art assets (like downscaled textures or audio samples). But you can't take a 360 or PS3 game and have it run on the Wii. It just doesn't work that way, and it wreaks of ignorance.

Fifth, graphics aren't all the wii lacks. If it did, then the Dead Rising down-port should have been nothing more than an ugly dead rising. It's not. It's a dried husk of its former glory, and graphics are actually the least reason why. And don't bring that whole "sloppy port" bullshit; it wasn't. You can't dismiss every evidence that the wii is simply an inferior system as being "sloppy port" because there are NO "not-sloppy ports" to judge by.

If you get enjoyment out of the wii, all the power to you. I still enjoy my Genesis and SNES. But don't pretend it's not hobbled together, or that it's not gimped significantly.

 

We're already going for the nostalgia factor, thus limiting most gameplay variables and things of that nature to 16-bit levels - I don't expect hundreds of enemies on the screen at one time, for instance. In my mind, for a game like this, the only difference is the graphics, and perhaps the online factor. Both could be appreciably scaled down for the Wii - and, as mentioned, Sega would be foolish not to do so.

Of course, if the game is very large, the storage size of the download comes into play. So we have a problem: Wii games sell the best, but the DLC system is incapable of running anything above 0.5 GiB. Perhaps the Wii could receive a disc-based release while the others don't? Just speculation, but still, somewhere around 90% of this thread is speculation. And yes, I am bringing up this argument just because I know it's a subject you have strong opinions on.

 

I'd be fine with that if it was released as a download only game, I already thought that would be only way of this happening right to be honest. I dunno, it's like being a download game they aren't forced anymore to make a game that appeals everyone and somehow can focus on making it decent.

Nonetheless that wouldn't be a bad thing. Braid for instance possibly couldn't have worked well as a retail game, yet it is a fantastic masterpiece.

 

I fully stand by what I said, and I'll tell you what it meant:

Developers (first party or otherwise) made better looking games on the SNES than they do on the Wii. More effort went into them, they pushed the system to its limits, and they resulted in a better looking product. I think lots of SNES games look great, whereas I think most Wii games look like crap.

 

This is probably because of rose tinted glasses, though. When you remember the SNES, you only remember the top-dog, AAA games with the biggest budgets of that generation. In a decade, when all you can remember about the Wii is Mario Galaxy, Brawl, and so forth, you'll have an exaggerated view of the Wii's graphics as well. There are some butt ugly SNES games, and even more terrible (as in gameplay-wise) SNES games. Most SNES games are NOT good, just like you claimed most Wii gamess aren't good.

I'm more than willing to admit that the ratio of good to crap is much higher with the SNES than the Wii, though.

 

Really? News to me.