The way I see this, it's people of one point of view trying to use this as a way to overthrow people who have, for the last couple years, got proven information with logical methods. Over one mistake they made. I think, frankly, that is an idiotic thing to do. This simply means both types of inquiry are valid; not that the old way of thinking is entirely in need of destruction and we should regress to an era in which we spent our time guessing about everything ever. This guessing is useless. Questioning established information has its place, but it needs a way to be verified or checked. I would say that rather than irrationally throw the baby out with the bathwater, we simply keep in mind that theories other than what are accepted may have merit too; and hence, we simply keep them off to the side rather than repress all of them. Even then, they have to make some sense, though! I mean, I could theorize Sonic is a real person, but fat chance of that being true. I shouldn't be allowed to clog up the forum with a theory topic arguing about that, for example.
I don't think he has to so much apologize, but rather just learn a valuable lesson about considering other people's opinions. As a whole we all need to be significantly more open to opinions, no matter how old or seemingly silly they are, so long as there isn't concrete contradicting evidence. We've had too many crazy theories end up being spot on. If someone said Neo Green Hill Zone may be another, as was mentioned, well, maybe it was! So, we go dig for information. I personally am very impressed with the way you handled yourself about this whole thing, wetflame. Although at some points you came on strong, you never degraded or dismissed anyone. Ironically, I kept trying to agree with you but all my posts ended up agreeing with the other point of view. But, I was open to either side (and always thought Dust Hill was the desert anyways, as most of us had in the back of our minds :P).
That's really unfair. There were massive logical holes in the Iceknight side of things. It's not a coincidence that it turned out we were right. If you look at the older threads mentioning DHZ(my connection is slow as shit right now so I can't pull up older threads) the opinion that it was nothing more than mystic caves was pushed on people. The OLD WAY OF THINKING I was opposing was that only concrete, factual evidence was valid, because of the fact that REASONING(what people often call "theories") is just as important, and concrete evidence can be interpreted differently. You outright pushed your opinion on people. In the other thread for example you said "This is why. " You looked down on a particular people and made an active effort to stamp it out. If not, what was the purpose in that other thread? I don't want to start a fight. This should be cause for celebration. But without some kind of follow up here it was a fruitless effort. Have you not noticed the vast amount of people saying "This is what I thought all alone!" who never dared butt their head in before? This is because of the kind of environment you and others created where that opinion wasn't welcome. Even if I risk alienating people again with this line of argument it's still the right thing to do. It's not fair that people who push their opinion get off the hook even when that opinion is proved wrong. I've always tried to push for this community to be reasonable and balanced and this is no different. I guess I'll just have to leave it at this for tonight but I hope people can understand where I'm coming from and realise I'm not trying to be an ass. If we prove one thing wrong and all the person acknowledges is that we were probably right on this one thing, it doesn't necessarily changed the flawed way of thinking that resulted in the unfair dismissal of opposing opinions.
Naturally, a balance to either side's favor is unfair. There was too much towards the side with the Iceknight stuff. But on the other hand, your insisting of an apology and attacking him is just the same sort of thing that the old way of slapping people for saying Dust Hill was a desert level was about. What we have now is a nice middle ground. Naturally these things should be investigated, but if we go into castigating people for simple mistakes, then we are simply repeating what was done to those who didn't believe the theory around Dust Hill Zone being unrelated to Desert Zone.
Back to the topic on-hand... I don't have proof of it or anything, but I thought the association of Dust Hill and the desert zone came from SegaFan magazine or something?
Stating something while pointing out stuff that just makes sense is hardly "forcing" an oppinion. To show how it made no sense that people on the internet started calling it like that... Something that still doesn't make sense, as stated earlier.
Good to see this all cleared up. ...won't stop me from making my Mystic Caves into a desert level, though. EDIT: o_o;
Hmm. Well at least I didn't hallucinate it. Now I bet nobody has a copy of this issue, right? D: Really, the thing we should be upset about is that now we DON'T have this thing to debate about anymore. :v: You guys just don't see the big picture. :P
Or the people who agreed with the higher ups just because it was futile arguing with them =P I was really nervous when Tweaker said he contacted Yasuhara. I was worried for two reasons 1. I was worried that he'd say, "Yeah it was the old name for Mystic Cave..." and the desert level would never have that name again and then some people would come in and say "Oh he's a liar! He doesn't remember!" 2. I was also worried that he'd say something either vague or that he didn't remember and we'd be back to square one. I didn't really want to know the truth because I WANTED it to be Dust Hill. But since the truth is what I wanted, I'm happy with that. Totally amazed but also totally happy :v: And I still don't think this is IceKnight's fault. I mean if all he had was the magazine scans yeah, sure you can counter that with, "Well they had the same beta we did." But with things like that beta that Drx talked about... it really did seem less and less likely that that desert zone would ever be Dust Hill again. Glad that wasn't the case. EDIT HI KAT! EDIT 2: I think Wetflame should also get some recognition on the wiki page for Dust Hill, would anyone object to me adding that?
A few minutes of searching turns up nothing. I also tried Diehard GameFan magazine, but so far, nothing either. EDIT: Diehard GameFan magazine, November 1993 issue, sold on eBay, although the page doesn't mention Sonic 2 (and yes, this is a year after the initial final release of Sonic 2). Although, there is an article on Sonic CD. Still no results for SegaFan magazine (assuming such a publication existed to begin with), although I'm wondering if it was an error from the webmaster in calling the magazine SegaFan instead of GameFan.
Wow, Dust Hill Zone is the Desert Zone. I never thought I'd see this day. It makes perfect sense, but after the evidence against showed up, I changed my opinion, but now the truth has come out. Thank you, Yasuhara-san.
Finally common sense prevails. Desert level is Dust Hill, while Mystic Cave as dust hill is just a fuck up. Good work on the hunt gentlemen
Sonic one betaa anyone? :P Anyway, never thought this will happen. But, after reading all the Dust Hill-related topics leading up to this one, it seemed like the truth will be revealed around this point. Kudos to all involved for putting an over 8 year old debate to rest.
There was still plenty of discussion (though less than now) about it for a long time - unless I'm having a memory lapse.
Well yeah I mean the name thing didn't come up until 3 years ago though. But it doesn't matter now, it's been put to rest, you're right about that. I'm almost kind of sad it's over. What's our next mystery? Maybe how Sonic would go Super in the Hidden Palace? If Flying Battery took place at dawn? If Neo Green Hill was a whole new level? Genocide City or Cyber City? STAY TUNED!
