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Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    Forgive my ignorance, but considering Origin's ports run on RSDK, would it be possible to backport the player object code for Amy and Knuckles in CD to their respective disassemblies? If nothing else, we can bring these changes into the versions the community tends to use and have something definitive. (I say this, but 3 AIR still kinda struggles with Origins changes).
     
  2. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    I understand why some people are disappointed with the lack of changes but I also think we need a bit òf perspective here. This is just a minor DLC to accompany a physical release of a retro game collection. It probably did not get a major budget and I'm unsure how profitable it will be. This kind of thing really is made for hardcore fans like us.

    I can't really feel disappointed knowing what Origins Plus is. It is highly unusual for a retro game collection to get any updates a year after release and especially rare for entirely new characters and changes to level design.

    It would have been great if they made major overhauls to UI presentation and made the game far more customisable. But I also understand why such an undertaking is too large for the scope of such a small project.
     
  3. BenoitRen

    BenoitRen

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    It doesn't take a big budget to fix or restore some of the things that we have problems with.

    For example, using RSDK's scalers must be pretty simple. As must be putting back the music that they took out of Sonic, Sonic 2, and Sonic CD. Or how about that save system that they took out?

    Budget really isn't an excuse here.
     
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  4. big smile

    big smile

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    It's also not the case that Sega are just charging $10 for Plus. They charged $44 for the main game, 3/4ths of which recycled existing ports.

    Really, a lot of the features people wanted should have been in the original game!

    It's very hard to shake the feeling that Origins from start to finish was designed as a cash grab to extract max revenue from the hardcore (which would have been totally fine if they had put the polish in).

    I do admit that I have zero knowledge of game development. So it could be adding Amy + Knuckles in CD and porting over mobile games is more costly than we realize. And if that's the case, then that's fair enough. But it doesn't seem like that would be the case.
     
  5. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    I think it's also that it kinda looks bad against Mania Plus, which was the same deal for the same type of game but also a much more elaborate glow up for half the price. TWO characters, a new mode, 3-4 player added, and similarly lots of tweaks and bugfixes the original version needed.

    I do like the prospect with Amy and Knuckles in Origins Plus, but yeah, so far, it feels a bit underwhelming due to what Mania Plus gave us, like there should be at least one other big draw. At the very least the DLC feels like it should be cheaper since it doesn't come with the collector's edition artbook and what not.
     
  6. RetroJordan91

    RetroJordan91

    The REAL Blue Sphere Guy Member
    Ok I watched the stream on and off for the past few days and I have nothing but respect for Katie and Justin, but Justin to me was not playing the game all that well. I don’t know if that was intentional or not (I mean he didn’t even know how to navigate around the game menus or that the intros can actually be skipped) but I will agree it wasn’t the best foot forward to show off a new feature of the game. The lag was definitely due to whatever recording stuff they were using and it wasn’t representative of Origins as a game because it still runs very smoothly.

    Also I don’t know if anybody else noticed, but the infamous timer bug in Sonic CD has actually been fixed (look carefully at the timer at start of each stage; the milliseconds don’t start off from where they ended at the previous stage)

    I know that was nit picky but that was one complaint I heard a lot about with CD, even with the 2011 release.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2023
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  7. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    Mania Plus was a DLC for the most successful original Sonic game in a decade. But Origins Plus is just an upgrade to a retro game collection. A much closer analogy is Mega Collection Plus.
     
  8. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    Not quite. Mega Collection/Plus was a package of emulated games. Origins is a package of remakes built on the same engine as Mania.

    It's why adding emulated Game Gear games felt more befitting for Mega Collection Plus but is kind of a 'eh okay then' type of bonus for many on Origins Plus, especially since, from what I recall, Mega Collection Plus wasn't much more expensive than the original.
     
  9. big smile

    big smile

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    I’m note sure if it is a good analogy. Mega Collection Plus wasn’t DLC. It was them re-releasing the GameCube game on other systems, adding half of the Game Gear games that GameCube owners already had in SADX.

    (The original US GameCube version of Mega Collection had “only for GameCube” branding on the box, so I’m guessing they needed a “plus” version to get around that branding).

    Mega Collection Plus was also a budget price title in the US being released at $19.99 (UK owners had to pay full price, but we got Gems Collection as a budget priced title so it all balanced out). Meanwhile the full package of Origins Plus is being released at $39.99 so it’s not a budget collection.

    You can forgive Mega Collection Plus for being low on new content, because it was sold at a “cheap and cheerful” price point. That’s not happening with Origins.
     
  10. TomGyroid

    TomGyroid

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    "But Sonic Team are totally getting experience with the Retro Engine to make Sonic 5, guys."

    Yeah, I have to agree that budget or even a rush job probably isn't an excuse for such relatively simple changes. Sticking to their guns on how they decided the lives system or save system work is one thing, but that they stubbornly refuse to try and understand how to fix the blur in their 2023 sprite game, even when Taxman called them out on it as such, for something you could fix in modding in 2 seconds, is just such a weird way to put their best foot forward. Unless it's actually secretly being added as a settings toggle near the completely useless anti-aliasing option in the update.

    I know it's a rereleased game collection, but it's perhaps also a prestigious project all its own, viewed as the next Classic Sonic project after Mania? S3&K was entirely remade for it, a brand new character whose never been in this type of game before was given brand new sprites and moveset throughout all games, something you could be forgiven for doubting them putting in that effort for bonus DLC of a game collection. And it's a direct match to how Mania Plus added in new playable characters to the Sonic mythos, almost as if both projects are on a similar pedestal as the big projects of Classic Sonic?

    I will say the DLC might have some leeway in its pricing by also including the whole Game Gear catalogue that presumably ran much more on the eShop. But yeah, for the premium that Origins as a whole has been so far, you'd expect some things got another look in. I let it slide that we have to pay a bit more on top of the collection's inflated price to access Knuckles in SCD (which TBF seems less to me as a UK with pounds anyway) just because we were finally getting what we were asking for, but there's a limit and 60 bucks should be enough to fix pixel blur.

    LittlePlanetCD on Twitter also noted that there's a slight error going on with the Zone Clear for Knuckles in SCD, with a stray pixel and slightly cut Z. I personally wouldn't scream doom over the collection for a single stray pixel like others may've, but I'd hope this is just the one new glitch Plus comes with.

    https://twitter.com/LittlePlanetCD/status/1664753983985008640?t=BM84J63cveAWO-Z2YGWTsw&s=19

    You have to feel bad for Headcannon here. They're clearly putting a lot of love into this, making multiple new paths for Knuckles in SCD and having a ROM hack dream come true with Amy finally getting into multiple games with adorable sprites. And yet their work is getting a negative light shun on it just because ST refuses to address some issues on their end that fans have modded in fixes for months ago.

    Well at least the SCD Timer bug finally seems fixed. The very first thing I can cross off my current list of nitpicks. Twas tuly a soul for a soul with Sonic Team-caused issues still being present. Maybe the update is focused on fixing the more literal errors and bugs of the collection than what ST doesn't see as problems. So far in terms of Headcannon's "updates and enhancements", we may have that and Knuckles' SCD routing.

    I'd say Knuckles' addition into SCD makes him a "new" playable character alongside Amy. It meets the limit of newly added characters these RSDK projects usually get; Tails/Knuckles for S1, Mighty/Ray for Mania and now Amy/SCD Knuckles for Origins. And a new Encore type mode for all 4 games might've always been a reach, especially with BlazeHedgehog's claims from people on the inside that Encore Mode as it is kinda fell short of what the Mania devs wanted it to be.
     
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  11. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    That's fair, and it is at least building off of the core draw of this package in a productive way (new ways to play these old games), I think the bigger contention is that Knuckles in CD often felt like something that should have been in the vanilla package since he was already in the other three games.

    The Game Gear games are a neat addition but do still feel like a side attraction since they seem to be base emulations with no new bells and whistles or ties to the enhancements. Unless they reveal something else soon, Amy is the only other big upgrade otherwise. I will commend that if she has a really distinctive playstyle that again plays on giving fresh experiences with the classic games, but it still feels a bit less inspired than what Mania Plus gave us for half the price.

    I feel like 3-4 player mode in Sonic 2 at least should be a possibility now they actually have 4 characters for example, especially being on the same engine as Mania, as well as maybe some new mode similar to Encore, sure not something as revolutionary or elaborate, maybe something like Jam's difficulty changes or even just some extra missions. Just a bit more stuff to flesh out this package and at least justify that doubled price tag.
     
  12. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    They're really putting the bare minimum with this package
     
  13. jubbalub

    jubbalub

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    I am disappointed that not many of the game's issues appear to be fixed, at least from what we've seen. The audio woes, blurry screen filter, the mildly disjointed UI with random inconsistencies, and the really strange Classic/Anniversary divide. The "new routes" so far haven't amounted to more than short distractions that look like they aren't meant to be there, and Knuckles in Sonic CD was just a feature that should've been there from the start. I don't think "bare minimum" is fair, but the whole thing does feel a bit slap-dash.

    I can't speak on bugfixes yet since those are never really important in the press cycle. They're not gonna make a trailer of every bug that's been fixed. I'll reserve judgement on that front until the DLC actually comes out.

    I really want to be excited for this DLC. Who doesn't? Playable Amy for the first time in over a decade! But so far, I am not convinced. This is especially disappointing because this is classic Sonic, a series of games that I absolutely adore. I can only imagine that this collection was only possible because of the rousing success of the 2013 remasters and later Sonic Mania, and it's really disheartening to see it not get the proper care I feel it deserves. I have no idea how much of this can be attributed to Headcannon, Sonic Team, or anyone else involved, but that doesn't change how I feel.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2023
  14. TomGyroid

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    Where has it shown that the Drop Dash is still wonky? That wasn't in the livestream.
     
  15. jubbalub

    jubbalub

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    I genuinely could've sworn I saw them use the Drop Dash in the livestream, but I looked through again and they did not. No idea where that came from. I've removed that from my reply, my apologies.
     
  16. Battons

    Battons

    Shining Force Fan Member
    I’m happy sega and sonic team are literally doing anything when in the past they would just leave the games behind for better or worse. My expectations for dlc are severely lower than a base game, which origins had some pretty glaring omissions. However, Taking this purely on a is it good dlc perspective, I think it is. I honestly think fans have their expectations way too high for sonic team, yes headcannon is involved but sonic team is the one who has final say in this scenario.
     
  17. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    My disappointment is entirely on SEGA, not Sonic Team of Headcanon. The marketing budget for this is 2 Supreme Dorito Tacos at Taco Bell. I'm not going to give them a participation award for half-assing something.
     
  18. BenoitRen

    BenoitRen

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    Indeed, expecting Sonic Team to fix anything of the mess that they made is too much.
     
  19. LF222

    LF222

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    NGL i still dont know what this blur people are talking about is, the games all look normal to me
     
  20. Jason

    Jason

    *Results not lab tested. Member
    There is a bilinear filter applied to the games. See at 8:58.