Sonic Frontiers Thread - PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC

And it's not like there was a liiiiiitle known, kinda obscure Sonic game that did exactly that back in 2001, haha
Honestly when they revealed the first gameplay footage I kinda expected them to do exactly that, it's weird to me they didn't

 

I prefer rings as a measure of health since it's more thematic. Also I'm pretty sure having rings is less than steps than having rings and a healthbar.

 

The simplest solution is, instead of removing the traditional ring system, just make it so rings don't drop when hit. Also remove Cyloop giving you unlimited rings. That fixes the problem almost entirely IMO.

 

I really don't see it as a problem, nor is it confusing. If you want a challenge, don't get hit.

 

I think the wolves would be fine if you either didn't have to wait for all of them to attack or there was some risk/reward of running away and escaping the loop (or any strategy other than parrying, perhaps). I don't think there's any other enemy in the game that you can't just turn around and run away from, so they definitely stick out. I still think Ouranos is the best island of the bunch, in any case.

That said, I think Ares is more too flat and open than too large on the face of it. There are a lot of great areas, it's just the big stretch of sand in the middle that feels like padding. Which is why I like this setup for Sonic, because you can have areas like that and then just ignore them if you're trying to go fast. Not saying it's not a problem, but compared to something like Chaos where you definitely do have to squeeze down into the tiny pathways, it's a lot more versatile.

Make no mistake, I want smaller open-zones, but that's more about environmental diversity and focus in design than most of Frontiers's level design being particularly poor.

I think the issue with this is that the one-ring system is perfect for a high-speed platformer, which this game still wants to be. That "just grab a couple and keep moving" feel keeps the pace up. I played both Freedom Planet games recently and I really disliked the way stages would essentially shower you with health pickups to keep the flow going, but then bosses were much longer, harder and more involved than normal for Sonic, and the lack of that health made them feel like screeching halts on the pace, like the stages hadn't properly trained you for the test the bosses are meant to serve as.

We're looking at this backwards, is my point. We're trying to modify Sonic's staples to suit the combat, when we should really be looking at how the combat can fit into Sonic's core mechanics. A lot of guardians do this by being more like platforming or speed challenges than traditional combat encounters, and this usually works okay. But they then tend to also make you use the combat system they've built at the same time. This is why it can feel tedious doing a bunch at once.

That said, if we had to do the former, I would suggest changing how rings drop cumulatively over the course of fights. Make them launch out at a different angle or distance so they're harder to pick back up, perhaps?

 

The open zones in a new game of this style don't have to go smaller, buuut if it took them 5 years to make 3 maps of this scale, I'd prefer they do. Somewhere closer in ballpark to Mario Odyssey (but slightly bigger for a Sonic) would encourage stage density, verticality and creativity far more than a map meant to sprawl as far as the eye can see.

That said I still don't trust them to make the open zones feel like a Sonic world. A "promising start" means nothing if they can't work on that. More mild, dull fields with rails and ziplines pasted over it would be DOA for me. Give me ramps, give me halfpipes, give me loops and spirals, give me twists and banks, casinos, cities, highways and industrial settings, give me flashy colors. And please, for the love of god, give me peppy tunes next time. The new DLC only emphasized how bad a Sonic game needs em.

 

I mean, much of that time was likely spent on figuring out HOW the game would be designed (they spent like 3 years on the Giganto fight alone). I would figure it would HOPEFULLY take them less time to iterate upon a formula after it's been figured out. Then again, TotK has taken what, 6 years to make, which is comparable to what that team spent on the original game. But to be fair, much of that time was likely spent playtesting and fine-tuning the new abilities, which are admittedly pretty complex mechanically (as they require to calculate interactions between all the different objects in the game in relation to each other).

 

I'm already reeling at ToTK being as samey as it is. Games sure are in a bad spot doing this open world thing.

 

Thanks for all your replies, tips and thoughts.

I had a go at changing the settings in the demo again but it’s still not really doing it for me. I’m giving Frontiers a pass.

I am sure others are enjoying it, and that’s okay. I don’t think its for me though.

 

So I picked up Spider-Man on Steam a couple of weeks back and it's sucked me right in to the point of binging it and I really think it's one of the games Sonic Team should be looking to for inspiration.

With regards to world design, Spidey's is even more basic and barebones than Frontiers, being what amounts to a collection of cuboids. However, this is never a problem because locomotion is just that fun. This is particularly emphasised in the Taskmaster drone and bomb challenges (despite their aggrevating high score bars), which demand mastery of the movement mechanics in order to complete the challenges as quickly as posisble. Meanwhile, Sonic isn't confined by real-world geometry and, while I appreciate the artstyle of Frontiers going back to the more grounded direction of the Adventure games, 06 and the original boost trifecta, I think it was a mistake to allow that to inhibit the environment design. I whole heartedly agree with Azookara's desire to see more verticality in future. The best the movement felt to me in Frontiers is when I was climbing the Rhea Island towers and scampering up walls with the boost, thanks to the greatly improved turning allowing much more precise control. I think they really ought to capitalise on that kind of rush.

In terms of combat, Spider-Man provides a lot of options distinct with just 5 buttons. You've got your basic melee combo, web strikes, air launchers, throwing enemies, yanking them to you, dodging, finishers and stealth takedowns, and maybe more that I'm forgetting. They key here is that every action is clearly defined in its purpose and a lot of them are activated in a context sensitive but intuitive manner. For example, yanking enemies towards you is an extremely potent tool in the air, since melee enemies can't access you up there, allowing you to manage targets more effectively by minimising the amount of incoming attacks you have to worry about, and all it requires is that you hold one button whilst in the air - the same button that allows you to yank enemies' weapons out of their hands or that can zip you towards them when pressed/held on the ground and that performs a stealth takedown when an enemy hasn't seen you yet. Granted, Sonic shouldn't just copy this system wholesale because the actions Spider-Man can perform aren't any kind of fit for the actions we'd expect Sonic perform, but I think it's very important that Sonic Team understand the philosophy behind Spidey's combat system, because a lot of the specials added in Frontiers can serve those specific functions. Those tornado attacks? They can be used to drag enemies together and/or into the air for easier homing attack chains. Sonic Boom already deals huge burst damage to single targets and just suffers from every other special also doing that.

There's a lot of directions that can go in with what's been built in Frontiers, but I think the most important thing Sonic Team needs to do is construct an environment that allows for more nuanced, divergent strategies than what is currently allowed in a game where almost every attack achieves the same thing and where the environments do little to take advantage of Sonic's moves and speed. The formula has the potential to be every bit as rich as the classics with its own identity, but whoever's calling the shots needs to embrace the idea of depth and complexity, and realise that this doesn't have to mean obtuse, finnicky controls.

 

I think Spider-Man proves that even uninspired content, like trailing missions or Ubisoft towers, can be greatly uplifted with some great movement options. Verticality is definitely something I'd like to see more of in the DLC.

 

This is always why I imagine a possible sequel to be taking place in a city. Tall buildings to hop across, highway segments to run on, sewers working as caves, construction being made into platforms, etc. Like the At Dawn section of Speed Highway, actually.

A city open zone would be so fundamentally, naturally Sonic that it sort of designs itself.

 

Very big disagree here. I really don't care for the idea of giving combat this much focus in a Sonic game, especially when it manages to feel this much like a Sonic Game™. I'm able to overlook how much of it there is in the game right now because of the degree to which I'm free to just ignore it and tell the various encounters that try to engage me to fuck off. I take full advantage of that freedom, because I'm here to run around and do physics stunts to collect things. Having more encounters which force me to engage in some combat before I tell it to fuck off would make for a much less pleasant experience. At that point I'd rather they fully untangle the BotW-adjacent game they want to make from the DMC-adjacent game they want to make, and sequester the latter off into a series of combat-focused spinoffs that I can ignore.

 

The amount of encounters in Frontiers as-is that pull you to a full stop and force you to even look at an enemy for a few seconds is obnoxious, let alone the ones that try to trap you into doing their battles. It doesn't help that the range of your attacks reaches so far that you could be trying to Drop Dash or Homing Attack away from an enemy and it'll instead think you're starting up an attack at them. That fuckin' Spin Slash, man...

If Sonic Team want players to engage with these bosses, they should probably stop making their presence so invasive. Don't pause my flow and pull the screen away from what I was doing just to slam their name, face and an evil BWAAAA / battle theme at me just because I happen to be within a 300ft radius. Don't try to rope me into boss-specific mechanics that take a good several minutes to play out. Don't make bosses require multiple cycles to defeat, either. The more enemies you can defeat in one cycle, the better.

Spare me from the event-bosses except on special occasions, and just let me schmoove around the environments please. I feel like that should be first priority in a Sonic game.

 

You people want rolling around at the speed of sound? Because this is being worked on



I mean it looks fantastic I can’t deny that this def looks more fun. Almost perfect now

 

And even with how invasive they are right now, it'd be way less annoying if I could just defeat them and never have to worry about them bugging me again. But instead, they respawn. Would have been way nicer if that was optional. Like if it was a possible result on the now-optional slot machine game.

 

Yeah. There's really no good excuse why they should have to respawn. Well, unless ST is aware of how vapid and empty the fields would look without giant mechs standing in them. lol

 

I think they respawn so if you find certain bosses too tough, you can fight ones you’re good against and still be able to open all the cyberspace portals and still progress through the game. Plus some enemies are more like platform challenge aiming devices so they need to respawn if you want to access certain spots again. And hey maybe you just want to fight the boss again? I don’t see the harm personally, they’re pretty easy to avoid (except the squid and fortress ones those are a little more annoying, especially fortress bombing you)

Turning off slots at least adds value to finding purple coins, otherwise those rack up way too easy, so I still appreciate the option to turn off the slots and star bit fetching. That being said, removing the respawning from extreme mode would’ve probably been good, it adds another layer of difficulty actually forcing you to fight these (and some in extreme are tough. strider phase 2 is hell, Tank is a nightmare)

 

That's why I suggested making the respawn optional rather than outright removing it. Some people are gonna want to fight them multiple times, others are gonna want to be rid of them for good. Why make either camp have to suffer?