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Unpopular Sonic Opinions

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Londinium, Jun 17, 2022.

  1. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    TurBoa, S1RL
     
  2. VectorCNC

    VectorCNC

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    I'm not sure exactly if this is unpopular or just unexplored, but I feel there is a tremendous lack of character development for Dr. Robotnik, especially given all the social and historical relevance his character represents (industrial capitalist/eco-terrorist/romanticized science). Whenever I occasionally chime in about this, there is basically no traction or discussion (perhaps it's too deep?), which leads me to believe this opinion is unpopular, or that people haven't really given the subject much thought at all.

    As a child, my mind would fill in the gaps about who Robotnik was and it resonated with me, and probably you too, because it spoke to a foundational language about this persona. However this only went so far due to the limitations of the technology, so we had to rely on unacknowledged tropes popular in media, even if we didn't realize it. Although some of you may not know it, or care, his character trope has foundations in literature and media spanning a century, from Karel Čapek's 1920's science fiction play, "Rossum's Universal Robots", and the first depiction of "roboticization" in Frtiz Lang's 1927 film, Metropolis, to Dr. Eldon Tyrell, the corporate head and scientist of Tyrell Corp. in the 1982 film, "Blade Runner". At some point I should probably do the work and put all my thoughts together into a proper Youtube video, as I feel I could write a thesis at this point.

    In short, I find Dr. Robotnik's personality and traits to be extremely shallow and unexplored, and something which -if invested in- would tremendously enhance the world-building of Sonic The Hedgehog and translate into more success for the series. After all, Sonic is a story about characters, not just a play mechanic. But when you evaluate Robotnik as a character, he clearly lacks the sort of personality and development that you would expect based on his actions and role, let alone a recurrent character of over 30 years with a century of cultural foundations and contemporary relevance to modern civilization.

    It shouldn't be profound that Robotnik had a personable moment for once in Sonic Frontier's ("his daughter" *tear*).

    ...All this to say, I found a wonderful inspiration for further development of his character that I simply had to share! I'm embarrassed to admit that until yesterday my only familiarity with this character, the "Modern Major General" was an imitation from Sideshow Bob on The Simpsons. Yet this character exemplifies the hubris and pomp you would actually expect from Dr. Robotnik were his character well fleshed out.

    (Please let me know if this should have it's own thread)

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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2023
  3. Londinium

    Londinium

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    True, Eggman's kind of underdeveloped
     
  4. Chimes

    Chimes

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    Before my dad got into more anime and books to keep his writer side at bay, my dad had a whole glut of headcanon regarding Eggman as a character since the Dreamcast days and would basically come up with various fanfic ideas to me judging from Riders and Unleashed's cutscenes. It bummed him out many times that there wasn't more to Eggman.
     
  5. It does my heart good to know our children may also be doomed to wander SonicRetro in the future...

    Hello, my son/daughter lurking around my old posts. For what it's worth, I hid this obsession from your mother for close to 6 years. It wasn't her fault.
     
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  6. Chimes

    Chimes

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    Be careful, you'll cross the streams.
     
  7. So I'm just gonna go out on a limb and assume you didn't play Sonic Frontiers? Because that's what essentially an entire game dedicated to fleshing out Eggman.

    Now HOW it fleshes him out is another matter entirely.
     
  8. VectorCNC

    VectorCNC

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    Did you read my post actually?

    And also, for those who didn't watch the videos I posted, please do!! It's literally a template for a more interesting Robotnik that fits like a glove. It's a man who considers himself the refined intellectual and militaristic, an apex alpha-human, despite his obvious absurdity. Superficially it also fit's so well, but this isn't an accident it fits, it's because the "Modern Major General" is building off of familiar tropes in fiction, modernity, and real neurosis we observe in people. This is a person who believes the world is a machine and to be taken apart and understood. Superficially, he's bald, with overly large red hair, which symbolizes his desire for respect and importance, JUST LIKE ROBOTNIK. Even his wardrobe matches Robotnik. There is just so much to say about how Robotnik misses the mark on his potential. If Robotnik was a real person, he would have all sorts of personality traits and depth that supports his behavior, but this doesn't exist for some reason. For instance, where is the luxury? Where are his peacock feathers (mustache aside)? A person this self-important would have elements of this, but instead it's just always slick "ultra-modern" design. which. entirely. lacks. any. personality. Robotnik should be more than a cranky old man. For instance, Sega should realize that renewable technology is antithetical to his biography, and yet it slips through in some instances. There is also so much comedic relief available to play up Robotnik's silliness, it's a more endearing character, yet Sega doesn't bother.

    I implore you, dear reader, watch those videos and you will understand how this template would make for a much better Dr. Robotnik.

     
  9. Yes, I did? That's why I asked if you played Frontiers or not because like I said, it is a game devoted to fleshing him out?

    Did I miss something?
     
  10. VectorCNC

    VectorCNC

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    The part where I reference the "character development" of Robotnik in Frontiers, and how it's really not so profound. In fact, the only reason it's noteworthy is because there has been nothing but crumbs for 35 years... Yes, I played Frontiers, it's nice that they are giving Robotnik more story, but it really doesn't flesh out the personality any further, his motivations, his psychology. I bet if I walked into your bedroom there would be all sorts of furnishings that speak to you as a person, this doesn't exist for Robotnik beyond surface level.
     
  11. Ch1pper

    Ch1pper

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    It's dated now, but exploring the Egg Carrier in SA1 certainly gave me those "grandiose" vibes you're describing. Mixing it with bright poppy colors like the imagination of a child made it funnier. Like, just the idea of a wannabe hardass militaristic villain whose personal space would be so… inviting, tickles me. The idea that he makes it all solely for himself is friggin' hysterical.

    Actually, I guess the OVA does a pretty damn good job with straddling that line, given how limited it is.
     
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  12. I genuinely didn't see you mention Frontiers, I thought you were speaking in a general sense so my apologies.
     
  13. kyasarintsu

    kyasarintsu

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    While the story of SA2 is really easy to find flaws in, the coolness of it all does a lot to keep me invested anyway. The game is in a perfect sweetspot of earnest cheese and intrigue, making it fun to enjoy both ironically and unironically. I feel like this specific mix is what's missing in the newer storytelling.
     
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  14. Astro

    Astro

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    Not sure how unpopular this is since both games are pretty poorly received now, but after replaying both recently back to back I think Forces is far more tolerable than Lost World. The latter's more polished, probably didn't suffer from any real content cuts/changes like Forces clearly did, but it's still a total slog to replay and feels fundamentally broken. Controlling Sonic is more awkward than Sonic 4, the parkour barely works (I 100%'d the game so I think it's fair to say that), the wisps are totally pasted in and the ultra-focus on classic era tropes/badniks feels like a mismatch for the modern cast and plot beats they go for.

    By comparison Forces yes is a mediocre experience, but the core gameplay is Unleashed/Colors/Generations and that carries it a lot imo. It's far less competent than those games and way too content light, but I'll take that over some of the half-baked ideas Lost World throws your way. Infinite also sucks but I at least get why he's a 'threat' than the Zeti in LW who die after being hit like, two times and don't even seem to have a coherent goal beyond 'kill Sonic I guess'.

    Also the avatar is legitimately a fun addition and I'd dig it if Frontiers threw it in as DLC for a laugh. Wouldn't surprise me if that was an early part of the game's conception and actual thought put into it before they just started recycling a ton of content from Generations/Lost World out of desperation to have something out after 5 years of nothing.

    If Forces came out around when LW did I don't think it'd have been as poorly received; the one-two punch of a five year wait and coming out so close to Mania really didn't do it any favors.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2023
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  15. Ch1pper

    Ch1pper

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    Same. I cleared Forces at least once so it has that going for it I guess.
    I love the tropes and ideas in Lost World but I have a severe disconnect with the gameplay. If it were straightforward like Adventure/Colors/Forces I'm sure I'd be fine with it. But whatever they were trying to do with the parkour just… feels like pesky layers of icing that I'm no good at, so I can't enjoy the game-cake underneath it.

    Christ, Riders took a lot of buildup for me to really click with it, and I was never fantastic at it, but eventually I understood why people that 'got it' really enjoy it.
    When it comes to Lost World, I just feel like an old man that can't figure out his grandson's NES.
     
  16. While Lost World is technically a worse game then Forces, the latter bores me to fuck tears and that's the worst thing a game can be for me. At least when I hate something, I can get some ironic enjoyment from it. Forces is so flaccid that it's interesting as whitebread.
     
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  17. Londinium

    Londinium

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    I love the disconnect between Lost World and Forces. Lost World is a colourful wonderland with whimsical orchestral music while Forces is dark and features fucking murderous robots.

    There isn't even any buildup between the two, Forces canonically takes place after Lost World. Big 180.
     
  18. Zephyr

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    Lost World was the first mainline game I never bothered to pick up. Between it and Boom, I about lost interest in keeping up with the IP until Mania was announced.

    Meanwhile, Forces let me create my own stupid character I could dress up and laugh at, to the point I was motivated to 100% it to unlock all the possible gear.
     
  19. Rafa Stary

    Rafa Stary

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    Last edited: May 16, 2023
  20. Gerald and Merlina (the game's actual best Sonic villain, though that isn't saying much because even then she's mid on a broader perspective) exist. Also, I cared about the Battle Kuku Empire...

    In Archie. Which reminds me of another unpopular opinion I had.

    While back, I read through all of Archie. By then, I had gotten to the point that I did not care at all about Sonic game's stories anymore, (ANY Sonic game's stories, including the ones where they use to kind of try) and so it did not bother me how different it was to them.

    Tbh, MY main issue with Archie before Flynn was not the weirdness, hilariously bad art (which is way overrepresented online) or the questionable directions it could go at times, but rather that it was boring, having terrible attempts at humor and constantly killing it's own tension in stupid ways. (For one thing, about the latter, anyone who has actually read Archie Sonic should know better than to take any of his "feats" anywhere close to seriously.)

    But then Flynn came on and took all the absolute craziness that was Archie lore and combined it with elements of the game's and other media's lore into something that literally became my favorite incarnation of Sonic canon ever. Not only did we get some of the coolest stories this franchise has ever seen, but it felt like a celebration of Sonic, EVERYTHING Sonic, and not just the part of it some randos online would argue is "true" Sonic or whatever. I was literally at the point where I would not care at all if in the next game they just dropped everything that the games had been doing and just continued in this world. In fact, I would have really liked that, and at the time said it was the only way I'd care about Sonic game's stories again to any extent.

    This was a pre-Frontiers time, by the way. Still not wasting money buying the game, but I have enjoyed some of what I've seen of the story on Youtube to an extent.

    It's been a bit since I've read Archie, in part because I have been deliberately avoiding it so as to not ruin my memory of it, so I probably might not still feel that way, but yeah.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2023