Okay so lets talk about the whole Nega Wisps thing because I think its very fascinating. So, Sonic Colors I believe was when they started making the Cutscenes in English first to better lip-sync the dialogue. This is also however when they started making the cutscenes around the English script as well. To my understanding, in the japanese script, Nega Wisps were the result of the negative emotions of the Wisps. This is thematically in line with the series themes such as the relationship between negative and positive thoughts and the power of the chaos emeralds. However, as far as I can tell, in the English script, it was made out that the Nega Wisps were a consequence of Eggman draining their power. I believe this is even reflected in the Colors DS script which was written and more faithfully translated from Japanese. However, since the cutscenes are made based on the English script, we have Wisps transforming back and being turned into Nega wisps seemingly as a consequence of Eggman draining them in Colors and in Rise of the Wisps. This is why we can have things like the Bomb, Void, Ghost wisps and it snot treated like something that needs to be cured. I should get links and Examples to make what I am talking about more clear, but yea. SEGA and cross-communication and organization are like oil and water. #SaveWindii
Also Sonic Adventure has implications, such as Robotnik's logo using his old design as a basis, Casinopolis using the old designs, really it's just the flashbacks not using different models, most likely for disc space regarding something that would be seen, at most, for 30 seconds. They could have used the Saturn models, but Amy lacks one and they would have to add polygons to what is meant to save polygons and rendering...
As far as I can tell, the Jade Ghost wisp is just simply a normal Wisp. It just has the same mouth as the purple wisp. Here is some quotes from the Sonic Colors Ultimate website PURPLE WISPS Once Wisps are captured by Dr. Eggman, they are converted into Purple Wisps. These unfortunate Wisps are violent and forced to carry out Dr. Eggman’s evil plans. JADE WISPS Keep an eye out for the new Jade Wisp. This mysterious creature grants Sonic the ability to pass through walls easily and levitate like a ghost to reach otherwise impossible areas.
BlackHole, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Simple explanations for straightforward stories. Then of course Sonic Team just has to mess with basic logic as always. The mandates were that spinoff material wasn't allowed to use the classic designs from what, the mid 2000s to the end of the Archie run around Mania's release? So there was a long stretch of this level of crazy being enforced. I was reading through some old articles and I was trying to piece together some of the general timeline of things behind the scenes. Adventure 1, with all of the classic ties, cameos, Echidnas, and mentions, I don't think any of the later crazy was a thing at all at the time yet. The fact that ArchangelUK mentioned that some cameos in Generations were only allowed due to it being a big anniversary thing makes me wonder. The entire production timeline is weird. Sonic X was 2003. Two worlds introduced (well, to Japan since StC did it already by then). Heroes was late 2003 and the development fed into Sonic X. The Chaotix were retconned (which practically established an alternate timeline from here pretty much), and after not using Mighty or Ray they are essentially retconned out even with merchandising now. At least Archie and Fleetway could get away with it forever ago. I kinda feel like here is where the train goes off of the rails and it was the origin of story retcons. With Naka still being involved. The character designs were simple reused models in adventure, but 2010 had all of the Modern designs and it became more or less a brand choice by this point. Same year, Colors and the Two Worlds introduction in an offhand comment in a Iizuka interview. Didn't effect spin off material since the characters and continuity were all ongoing. Naka used the Islands and Mainlands explanation back in 2011 I think (even though Sonic 4 was said to be the mainland edge) though Iizuka mentioned it had already been on the books a while by then likely tying back to whatever came out of the development of Heroes, even if it was some misunderstood comment by everyone. I get the feeling at the latest it may have been tied to attempts at cleaning up the mess that was 06, but I've never found too much on background plot from any developer interviews from this timeframe. Worldbuilding, sure. But the entire globe was so different I was under the impression there were actually 3 worlds for a time. Or 4, counting Blaze I guess. 2011 and Generations, everything is on the table. Split timeline set up, though Archie comics run just had it be a still unified timeline in their adaptation of CD so Ian didn't seen to hear much about this until it starts tying into forces/mania. Unlike two worlds which he said he'd seen slightly after worldbuilding for the reboot was already set in place. Kinda wonder what the story bible looked like around then in Sonic Team since there are always nods to a lot of unknowns and then things like the timeline split we hear about later. ArchangelUK saying things were constantly in flux story wise when they wanted a change always made it seem like there were so few constants. Long jump to 2017 where it all gets brought into prominence due to the unwieldy script of Forces and Mania tying into it. Two Worlds and Timeline Split still in effect. 2020 also uses a more StC style of two worlds with the Film. 2022, continuity house cleaning with TailsTube finally putting a lot of things to rest. The old Naka explanation handwaves a lot of headache away and it's officially adopted. I can mostly live with having two timelines since it means stylistic choice changes depending on the project and with Time Travel it just makes sense. Miss seing Blazes world, there is potential for a world hopping game in there still. Is there anything I missed where developers or associated third parties commented on some of the major "underpinnings" either changing or being ruled out? I know Ian Flynn had mentioned a list of games that were counted as being canon at one point and that even seemed subject to change, and here I thought Star Trek continuity was hard to plot out. It's interesting that so many mandates the comics had over time sort of reflected some of the larger brand decisions. So divorced from oversight for a time, and it was a major thing that as it trickled out. Archie was the way I first saw hints at the classic design phase out, as they commented on how they went out of their way to simply work around it with obvious silhouettes representing the design gap which I found humorous. I think after Generations they were treating the classic designs as though they didn't exist again. Sonic 4 seemed to imply it. Where there any interviews from Sega on imaging for the brand for this time? Despite Lost World and other titles always drawing on an early simplified set of designs, it seemed for a time they wanted to keep a design lineage. Badniks from 2, to 3, to Adventure, to 06 and unleashed Somewhat kept some visual consistency before that was tossed out for Egg Pawns and simplified styles. In that regard I preferred the transition from Pocket Adventure honestly, since it was an easy transition that didn't throw out or confuse continuity. Starting to think it's fun to try and ferret out exact timeframes these ideas came up and how it's rippled out into the wider franchise. So glad a lot of it is straightforward again.
Classic Sonic was supposed to be a one-off thing for Sonic Generations. https://www.otaquest.com/interview-with-sonic-team-takashi-iizuka/ In the '00s, even Sonic Mega Collection and Sonic Gems Collection used the modern Sonic design for the (newly drawn) box art, despite those designs not being used in any of the featured games. There weren't any considerations for continuity, it was just how Sonic was drawn at that time.
Honestly, I'm convinced it's overcompensation for any criticism, as has been mentioned in the thread before. "We don't like the other characters play styles!" SEGA removes all other playable characters bar Sonic himself. "We don't like the story focus on Humans!" SEGA splits Humans off into a different planet. "The Classic design being a younger Sonic makes no sense!" SEGA makes him an alternate dimension counterpart. They're hyperfixated on addressing complaints that they're overcomplicating things and making more mess and more complaints.
I think they just thought like - hey, there is market for new "classic" games, let's create some! - but we can't, classic games are in the past, we couldn't be very creative with them because we are currently at their future with modern games - just say these new classic games are another dimension or such
And a new controversy was born. I really don't get why they thought it would limit them. Are they going to do a Master Emerald shattering story before Sonic Adventure? Are they going to have Tails build the ultimate plane? What exactly is the issue there?
@BlackHole You could use your superior skills for finding things mentioned in the games, as seen in the Earth quotes, to list all the mentions of passages of time. Like those 6 months in Forces, and the some months in Sonic 4 Ep 2, and the birthday in Generations, and the weeks in the classic games, etc. I trust you.
I have considered going through and assessing how long the games take (Sonic the Hedgehog (Mega Drive) takes place over two days, Sonic Adventure has a few days pass based on character interactions. I think there's four, I'll need to double check my notes...) myself as well, so sure I'll have a look into it at some point.
I still don't see how Classic being a younger Sonic makes no sense. It's literally stuff that happened years ago. The only real exception to this is Mania, which has already been established as being set after S3&K.
I think people are primarily hung up on the idea that Classic Sonic is literally what Sonic looked like when younger, and being unable to reconcile the design differences between then and now (green eyes, Eggman's change in height and body shape).
This was always my interpretation. The logistics of it didn't really matter to me. Sonic's world is already abstract as it is, maybe their species just changes eye color as they mature or something.
It just makes the most sense this way. Shorter, pudgier Sonic from games that take place first in the series = younger Sonic. It doesn't matter if it doesn't make 100% sense or that the characters in that era were the same age as they are now; these are easy things to retcon and/or abstract. No big deal, unless for purism's sake.
Regarding the ages, I see them as being just a generic attribute in their profiles. It doesn't mean that Sonic was 15 in both the classic games and the current games, just that the profiles take into account a point in time in which he was that age for easy comparison between characters. Just like the way Classic and Modern Sonics are listed as having the same height when that's clearly not the case.
Ian Flynn said Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic are officially the same height, in the Bumblekast episode we were just talking about regarding his age.
Friendly reminder that literally everyone but Vector and Espio comment on Classic Sonic's change of appearance: I mean, clearly they were always intended to be the same. Also, I miss Windii's translation channel...
