SEGA Mexico rep "confirms" Sega SuperStars, Storybook games

Nope. It was a nice novelty after 06 and Secret Rings but the gameplay of Unleashed/Colours bores me to tears. Boost along a straight hallway/platform/floor, boost into the screen some more, spring homing attack enemies over bottomless pit, boost, slide, grind on three rails, boost, SURPRISE QUICK TIME EVENT boost boost boost Indiana Jones Moment goal ring. That's just Unleashed, Sonic AWESOME OUTSTANDING AMAZING Colors often turns the gameplay two-dimensional and ironically it's only slightly less linear and narrow - not to mention the platforming segments that call for better platforming controls. Unleashed kind of reminds me of the later Advance games and the Rush series, this narrow-minded fixation that Sonic equals speed all day erry day, and while I can admire Colors for trying to remedy that some of the solutions there just go about it the wrong way.

Actually, you know what it really reminds me of - the narrow into-the-camera platforming interspersed with the left-right gameplay? Crash Bandicoot, only with gimpy controls/physics and more EXTREME SPEED to compensate.

As for what may be a better format to work on? Taking a few cues from this video, don't quote it as gospel:



Tone down the speed, make the character enjoyable to control (less accel out the ass). Make some of the paths a lot wider than shown even here - more wider or 'open' paths or levels, look at something like Sonic World or Mario Galaxy. Give room for exploration. Think about the earlier games that had level-exclusive toys and gimmicks to play with, and how ideas like those could work with a 3D Sonic - running up/alongside walls, messing with seesaws, hopping over spewing lava, snowboarding, spinning cogs, non-automated grinding... Make the railroading/Indy/loop-de-loop sequences more scarce throughout the game, but more special in their fewer numbers. Even the earlier games weren't necessarily full-tilt - Chemical Plant joined hands with Casino Night and Mystic Cave, Green Hill and Spring Yard were connected by Marble Zone...

Could you imagine a Marble Zone with a 3D Sonic? I kind of can. Large rooms, dropping spikes, Batniks, the odd switch, blocks in flumes of lava, glass presses, shields, timed spikes popping out of the ground, tunnels filling with up lava, platforms teasing 1-Ups, a whole room where the player can navigate the floating platforms to avoid the showers of lava without battling the controls... emphasising platforming, danger and speed without being dominated by narrow walkways, rails, springs and boosters. More like Mario 64 or Sonic Worlds? Maybe? Find a balance between guiding/wowing the player and leaving the player to their own devices. Give the player more tools/toys and the freedom to use them, occasionally dazzling them with setpieces when they're not entertaining themselves.

 

I enjoyed Colors. I like Unleashed/Colors' gameplay but I definitely don't want to see it become the staple gameplay of the series. I want to see more of what SEGA is trying to do with Classic Sonic in Generations.

3D Sonic? SA/SA2 all the way, forever. Shame they will never be able to replicate their gameplay, because they kept managing to fuck up 3D Sonic ever since Heroes.

 

SA2 is Sonic Unleashed/Colors minus the boost button.

Just saying.

 

You know it'll be a Fighters Megamix like game using a modified version of the new Virtua Fighter engines.
And it'll be glorious as a result.


Personally I want more levels in a similar style to Sky Deck, Lost World, and Final Egg. They don't need to be fully open all the time but they need to have a nice set of secrets and give me a few setpieces here and there where I have to stop and think a bit -- at least for my first few playthroughs.

The DS version of Sonic Colors may not compare perfectly to the old games but I do have to think about my routes at times. It still has a few of the issues I didn't like about Sonic Advance 2, but at least it's less populated with pits and has fairer bosses. It fixes all the problems I had with the two Rush titles which, while not insufferable, have some significant gameplay issues -- Rush has too many death pits and cheap hits (hi altitude limit), while Rush Adventure forces stage replay to get those minerals.

 

Sonic's turning radius, spindash, homing attack and SA2's camera system/level design all disagree with you.

 

Chao Garden with Street Pass support would be sexcellent.

Yes, although Sonic Retro's own main page still says differently. Eggman must have stolen all the edit buttons.

 

Am I the only one who enjoyed the Story Book games? It was a nice distraction from the main series. I actually enjoyed Black Knight more than Secret Rings due to how you control Sonic (Compared to a steering wheel). I just counted the sword as another attack button. The addition of Knuckles, Shadow, and Blaze as additional characters was a blast. I think it's the first time a 3D game let the player select what character they want to go through the same level with. Really reminds me of Sonic 3 or the Advance games.

 

NO. YOU SAID THEY WERE DEAD, SEGA. YOU SAID THEY WERE DEEEAAAAAD.

Pssst. Hey. Sega.

Want me to buy this game yet again? + - Put Super Sonic playable in levels in there like you were going to in the original.   Then, and only then, I MIGHT consider buying it. Also I kinda doubt they'll make SA3 for the 3DS. Just not seeing it.

 

Sonic and the Black Knight brought back the mortal sin of alternate playable characters since Sonic Adventure 2, except it did it right in that it's more like Sonic 3 & Knuckles, where the characters play the same but have different moves and attributes. If anything, that game should have proven that alternate playable characters is not a problem, but too bad the game decided to be like Secret Rings BUUUUT--~. The locale's been changed and, like Secret Rings, everything looks nice and different. The problem? The game is still strictly on rails. Nothing says 3D gameplay like being constricted to a wavy cross-section of a sprawling 3D world without even being allowed to look backwards much less look around—now with a stupid heavy sword that talks to wave around! Claustrophobic, clunky, and narrow: not my kind of 3D game. Unleashed is technically better because a) I feel more in control of Sonic, b) I don't have a sword or hold-A-to-jump to get in my way, c) there were some branching paths, and d) I can go way faster. Also I liked Chip, but that's neither here nor there.

Secret Rings had some really interesting looking locales and an ... interesting soundtrack, but the controls were even more retarded than Black Knight's. To add insult to insult, they have you do "missions" that amount to nothing more than chores for you to complete in the same stage you've just completed, ticking them off a list inside a zone selected off a higher list, like the game's fundamental interface was designed in Visual Studio.

So, yeah. For the same reason that Ritz asks everyone to stop asking for Sonic Adventure 3, I'm going to ask people not to get excited for another Storybook game. Sonic Colors 2? Sure. Sonic Unleashed 2? Okay, maybe. But not another Storybook game. The concept is stupid and the fundamental design that connects the two games in the spin-off series are awful.

EDIT: As for SA1, I'll just say this. Do not want another port/remake of SA1. Not unless it's utterly overhauled, rewritten, and revoiced (or not voiced at all!) with no Big, Amy, or Gamma. It shouldn't even feel like the same Sonic Adventure or it's "DX" version; it should be better than it in every way.

Even better yet would be an original 3D Sonic game that is neither Sonic Unleashed/Colors, Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic '06, nor Sonic Adventure 1 & 2. Something more 3D and original, with a brand new paradigm: 3D platforming married with large, speedy freeroaming areas, all governed by a physics system that heavily uses momentum and inertia in tandem with smooth controls for turning, jumping, and very slightly and smoothly changing trajectory in mid-air (no dead stops that kill momentum utterly). Treat Sonic like a pinball with small arms and legs, and his environments like large polygonal rooms, fields, or highways with 5-10 lanes that go up and down and all around. Oh, and no more homing attacks. Just a spindash and perchance an insta-shield. Maybe a homing attack that sends Sonic flying into an arc inbound to an enemy and outbound from it at the same speed Sonic hits it. The d-pad should have a strong influence in slowing down Sonic's inertia, but it should be instantaneous or abrupt. In a nutshell I want to do different things with Sonic in 3D and have different experiences that still involve the thrill of running fast as well as deciding when it's best to slow down and use platforming skills.

 

I just think that the storybook games encapsulate everything that's wrong with Modern Sonic, gameplay wise. It's literally on rails, and you barely have any control over Sonic. Nooo thanks, I think we can go without that. Besides, I don't think Sonic's reputation can take another hit like the one it took with Black Knight and all that sword business. :v:

 

I enjoyed them for what they were. Secret Rings was a launch window title so I don't really know how much we should've expected from it, but it was fun and flashy, and the story wasn't too terrible. Black Knight definitely controlled better (er...well, the sword's another story), though I wish I could've used the BK controls for Secret Rings. You can tell they put some work into the visuals, music, and the story scenes (though the story itself is rather meh), but the level design is pretty bland and straightforward. For fuck's sake, there's this cave level and the most interesting thing they could hammer into the straight and narrow level design was some lightning dragon that made a path for you in mid air. It zig-zagged a couple times and maybe did a loop. No wait, the only loop in the game is in the lava level and it's on a minecart rail. The extra characters did add a little replay value and extra depth, and Knuckles/Gawain was actually fun to use, but I was pretty annoyed to find that you can only use them in certain stages.

The locales in Black Knight looked great, but they actually had their imaginations turned on for Secret Rings.

 

Whoa, that's never going to happen so hard it hurts--

I see what you did there.

 

I understand the hate on Black Knight, but come on guys, hating on Secret Rings?
That game was godlike.

Before you say "But it was on Rails! You can only move in two/one direction(s)!"
I say "How is that any different then holding right and occasionally pressing A?"

Secret Rings remains today to be one of the greatest sonic games of all time, at least for me, it's up there with Sonic CD, not quite there yet though. The only thing disappointing about Secret Rings to me was the final boss, but that's just me.

 

It's not. But the thing is, that's not good either. Pretty sure no one likes that, actually. The point I was making when I said 'on rails' is that there's no exploration involved, and the game is constantly pushing you in one direction, and one direction only. That's not good in 2D, either, so don't get me wrong. (Hell, it might even be worse.) Might wanna come up with a better argument for this game, I think. You're free to like it all you want, but objectively speaking it's pretty shallow gameplay design.

 

I gotta admit, Darkspine Sonic was pretty cool, but yeah, Alfalfa de Wavy Lays or whatever was a piece of shit, and my arms hurt like a mother fucker when I finally managed to beat it like an hour later.

+ - Ouch, I see what I unintentionally did there.  

 

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I'm sorry man, but if you think a game like Secret Rings is godlike, then your standards are either low or misplaced. The game was literally so repulsive to play that I didn't even bother with it past the first zone. It. Was. Unplayable.

Read that again please.

That's probably the only cool thing about Secret Rings: Darkspines Sonic. Not that the final battle looked any good, mind you. Too bad such an awesome form was wasted on the game, if you ask me.

Edited my post for more demands. :p

Seriously. The only reason I could really, really even want a 3DS is if they release MML3 for it. An SA1 remake or a 3D Sonic game in general has to compete with that, basically.

EDIT: It would also have to compete with The Rolling Western, Kid Icarus: Uprising, and Sky Knight Rodea. Come at me SEGA!

 

To be fair, people aren't exactly going backwards in Sonic unleashed either.. (or Sonic Generations modern gameplay, at that.), but in terms of being restricted of your ability to turn around and explore your surroundings as you've said, I have this to say: Isn't that what a storybook does? (Unless, god forbid, you were expecting a choose-your-own adventure style storybook...). In storybooks, you can't "explore", you are restricted to what the artist gives you one piece at a time, and that's what these games are, Storybook games.

Actually, that's the main point. In a storybook, people don't ever go backwards (at least, I'd hope not!).
The way they approached the storybook idea makes sense, but I think the problem is people were going into this thinking it would be a Sonic Adventure-esque game.

Somehow, someway, people were expecting way too much from Secret Rings. I think the only correct way to describe the storybook games are "Race-track" levels. The levels are like 1-lap racetracks in their own right. If you look at the game that way, it starts to feel like it's own game, rather than a "main-entry" sonic game. And that's the thing, people are looking at these games like they're supposed to be main-entry, when they're really just spinoffs. (Except the black knight, which sucks forever.)

Even with its limited scope, Secret Rings did provide the alternate routes in levels that sonic games have been known for, intruiging enemies, platforming, and some decent-level boss fights. It maintained the traits a sonic game has been known for and tried to push it in this alternate scheme. In a way, I think they succeeded.

Am I saying they'll do this again? I don't know. I can't say what another entry in the series could be, SEGA could easily just say "Screw it." and make it like an adventure game, but we'll have to see what comes out from these rumors.


(P.S. I forgot to add this, but the storybook games are like Sonic's version of Tails Sky Patrol. Wild!)

 

How about this: every time Sega announces another lazy SA1 port we all pirate it for all presently released platforms.