Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

My gut feeling is that if it isn't based on Taxman/Saxman's engines, it's most likely emulation done by M2. It's definitely possible to add widescreen to Mega Drive games on a mass scale as shown by Genesis Plus GX Wide which was introduced earlier this year:



With some per game patching to eliminate bugs and to compensate for the extra view distance, you can definitely pull off widescreen. Although there definitely would be some limitations dependent on the game. I'm sure M2 would be more than capable of pulling off a similar effect across many of the Mega Drive games (unsure about Sega CD or 32x, if that's even on the table for this collection). I'm not sure if the Sonic 2/3 special stages would work well for this method, unless they selectively forced 4:3 under certain scenarios.

Obviously having Taxman work on it would yield a much better result (especially for the extra content on the table), but this is definitely a realistic option Sega could do.

 

To be honest, I'm less interested in this collection than I am in just how they handle the 3K music situation. It'll actually be advantageous if this is emulation based. Official, polished/completed proto 3K music in plain SMPS form would be a godsend. A nice resource for hackers.

In any case, the MJ stuff never fit, at least not in the context of the rest of the OST. Proto/PC music for life. That's the proper soundtrack, no one can convince me otherwise.

 

I think if the full Mania team were involved in Origins that would've been mentioned because it's a selling point. But it could be possible that it's only some of the Mania team — say, Headcannon — involved in Origins, whereas the rest of the team are working on something new that we don't know about yet because if there is a Mania 2 (or equivalent) it might make sense to not reveal it until after the Sonic Colors Ultimate window has passed.

(I'm entirely just speculating obviously)

 

Don't take this personally because I like the proto music, but I find it hilarious how the fandom at large has shifted from 'S3 PC music is awful never play that version lol' to 'S3 proto music is the true soundtrack'.

I really dont think the MIDI quality is the reason a lot of people changed their minds because while it is low quality I think it is actually not that bad. I think a lot of people (including myself) just never gave the PC tracks a chance and just wrote them off as lazy replacements.

It shows you how much power authority and legitimacy can give to your own tastes in art.

 

I think the Genesis proto tracks actually make a pretty big difference because the arrangements have more energy, and the PC tracks (especially CNZ) feel very lazy and incomplete compared to the Genesis prototype versions.

 

I agree but I also don't think this is a good enough reason for why people ignored these tracks. I still think they sound fine in MIDI, despite being inferior to the Genesis renditions.

I just don't think people gave them a chance and when it turned out Sonic Team internally produced them for Sonic 3, they gained the legitimacy to be taken seriously. Then people listened to them properly and found out they were awesome. I include myself in that list!

 

Helped that the compositions were generally solid to begin with. (except for Knuckles' Proto theme, ha~) Instrument choice is very important to get right, and the MIDI renditions definitely tend to strangle what was there in chiptune.

Spoiler: Take a listen!

Spoiler: Carnival Night Act 1

Spoiler: Proto

Spoiler: PC

Spoiler: Launch Base Act 2

Spoiler: Proto

Spoiler: PC

Going from "I guess this is fine" for the PC tracks to "oh THIS is what they were meant to be" for the Proto tracks was definitely a crucial point in making people appreciating those "new" takes. If they ended up sounding closer to those MIDI interpretations, I doubt they'd resonate as much as they did.

Swinging this back to Origins, wonder if there will be music toggles for things like Sky Sanctuary/S3Credits as you fly on the Tornado at the end, or 3/K title+invincibility+ending riff music.
... really hope SuperSonic music disabling is snuck in ala the 6,2,1,4 code in Mania.

 

For me I prefer the release tracks over the prototype tracks. I mean, I've always liked them, but the release tracks will always be the better of the two sets in my opinion.

 

I just like the official release tracks cause of childhood nostalgia lol.

Really, out of the 3 zones, only launch base act 1 do I consider to have a superior song in the retail game. Ice cap is debatable, and carnival night is a no brainer for the proto tracks (retail's tone is better tho imo, especially for the blackout. Ah well, we can't have our cake and eat it too ig)

 

Prototype Ice Cap Zone sounds like Crystal Egg Zone from Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (8-Bit), so there's also minor continuity there that I like over the Release tracks, but eh, I'd still prefer the Release tracks.

 

I, too, played the S&KC before the actual S3&K, so add me to the list of people who liked the prototype music from the beginning.

 

That's what I like about Sonic 3 AIR, you can pick which track you want to hear in those levels. I often put the proto song for act 1 and the final song for act 2.

I didn't like proto Carnival Night initially, something sounded off, and sure enough it was because it's off key from the Genesis version which sounds soooo much better. I like both still though, but for different reasons

 

All of this. I remember CNZ1 in particular where, after getting over the shock of it being in the prototype in the first place, I went "The fuck? This kicks ass! How could the PC version butcher it?"

I'd still prefer the final tracks if possible, but the proto tracks will do fine.

 

This makes me wonder.. considering the proto CNZ1 track is at a slower tempo and the version on S&KC is much faster.. are they going to modify the Genesis version to go faster? Or will it be left as is? (Maybe with extra polish)

 

I guess I'm just different, because I did enjoy using them in S3Complete just for the sake of having something different, Even there, I liked LBZ1 and I always, always, always used CNZ's PC track setting because I always hated the "scary" clown music the final game went with since it's not catchy and I didn't mesh with the rest of the series.

But the prototype versions of them made me actually LOVE the CNZ themes, as well as LBZ2, when before I used the CBZ PC tracks just so I didn't have to hear the final release's tracks, and I tolerated LBZ2's music because I liked the act 1 theme and I prefer more melodic music in Sonic games over slower, more percussion and bass driven ones like the final CNZ and LBZ tracks. Also, the unused theme always was my preference for Super Sonic over the invincibility themes.

I think I still prefer the Hard Times version of Ice Cap, and honestly, I kind of think the arrangement in 3 Complete of the PC tracks sound a bit better than the prototype tracks there.

But I've always been open to giving those tracks a chance, and always preferred some of them over the regular Genesis tracks, and the prototype versions made me like most of them even more, but according to everyone here, I guess I'm the outlier.

I have a strong feeling that the PC tracks were either made incompetently, or were based on earlier, rough drafts of the tunes, since CNZ is missing a lot of layers the prototype has, and LBZ2 has a LOT of incorrect notes compared to the prototype, and it just feels super sloppy in comparison.

 

the proto carnival night version sounds like a goddamned song, as opposed to the PC version basically being this weird-sounding mess. Production and instrumentation matters in music.

 

I played the Genesis/MD version of S3&K first and always loved that soundtrack, but I've never had an issue with the PC/Proto tracks either, other than being utterly baffled as to why they exist (I remember for a veeeeery brief time in the late 90's/early 00's, it was claimed by a few websites that the proto tracks were from the Japanese version of the game [a la Sonic CD], so when my naive teenage ass used my savings to import a Japanese cart and only to find that those tracks weren't there either, I naturally thought "Dude, wtf?!".)

I will agree that the PC tracks hit waaaay better with the MD chip/soundfont. I love them either way, though I still wouldn't go as far as to say they fit better than the MJ tracks. Make no mistake, they definitely DO fit and sound arguably "more Sonic" than the MJ tracks, but I feel like the MJ tracks were a nice change-up from what we were used to in the series by then. With this being the early 90's, I loved how tracks like the miniboss theme or Knuckles theme still held onto some of that New Jack Swing flavor, even though that sound was pretty much on life-support by '94.

 

It has taken some time, but I've really come around to appreciating the proto tracks. Having grown up with the Genesis, I used to always find it jarring when I would boot up the PC collection and get to Carnival Night. Well, it still sort of is because of the way the music sounds there, but having the Genesis versions in my library now has allowed me to get over it some. In fact, I now prefer the proto Carnival Night to the MJ/Buxer one. I won't mind one bit if I never have to hear that creepy clown fanfare again without specifically electing to. Go ahead and re-implement the internally composed soundtrack whoever you are out there developing this Origins Collection!

 

Why do so many people find carnival night's music creepy of all things? I think it's fun and funky, and fits the power outage gimmick way better than the prototype tracks :D