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"Multiple" new Sonic games planned for 2021

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by The Joebro64, Sep 7, 2020.

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  1. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    I'm honestly starting to expect nothing. Not "my expectations are that low", as in "I'm starting to suspect there won't be a game done in time".
     
  2. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    In what way is Sonic Lost World related to open world gameplay?

    Lost World isn't appreciated because it's a frickin' weird game. The floating tube island level design and run button should be enough to say that whatever Lost World was trying to do, it didn't work. Sonic Team could've taken basically any non-boost direction other than that and it probably would've worked out better. The basic ideas of nerfing Sonic's speed and wall jumping are not Lost World's defining traits, and a lot of ideas that happen to exist in Lost World could be used in a different kind of Sonic game while still not resembling Lost World's gameplay.

    If Lost World, as it exists, had been received with universal praise, I seriously doubt "open world Sonic game with multiple playable characters" would be their next move. And more importantly, I seriously doubt Lost World's negative reaction actively turned them away from the concept of an open world Sonic game with multiple playable characters.
     
  3. Dark Sonic

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    I mean the wall running was a cool idea, that should be expanded on. That actually A. Makes sense for Sonic's moveset and B. Gives him a wall climbing ability he desperately lacks. Tails and Knuckles have their own ways to get up why not Sonic, plus it'd allow for more platforming and it'd give Tails and Knuckles more purpose in 3D levels.
     
  4. Frostav

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    Everytime I see someone try to rehabilitate Lost World and say "actually it was great guys!", I suddenly understand how you genesis/mega drive dudes feel when adventure millennials like me try to defend the adventure games and you just wonder what the hell we see in these awful-in-your-eyes games

    Which is to say I politely do not understand how someone could find LW to be good
     
  5. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    Slice of life visual novel, coming soon...?
    I didn't post anything because I didn't want to derail the thread any further but eh I'll bite :V
    To reiterate on what I said in the lost world thread, it came at a time when boost Sonic was pretty much the only Sonic we were getting and I was fed up with it (didn't help that I never liked the boost formula in the first place)

    And here comes a game with fun and open levels with a super cool parkour mechanic! How could I NOT love it? Sure, the levels are vastly unequal in quality but godamn do people rag on this game way too much. It has a learning curve but it's not too hard to get good at it and most of the levels are super fun; and this is a hill I'll die on lol. And who cares about the run button, just hold it down and boom you're running. Is it really different from holding down the X button in the boost games?

    I do a full playtrough of lost world every few months tbh, it's just super fun to explore the levels, parkour up walls and use the infinite spindash (pretty much the boost but requiring actual skills to pull off) to finish the levels as fast as I can.

    As an Adventure fan this game was everything I needed after 3 boost games in a row. It was a step in the right direction and it's still one of my favorite 3D Sonic game to this day.
     
  6. Mana

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    Wow look at this big open level with multiple points of interest to explore. What if they expanded this, added new environments, upgradable moves to progress to new places in the vein of the Adventure games, and multiple playable characters, AND let you explore it in any order you want to? Wouldn't that be really enjoyable?

    Lost World's gameplay is fluid and the tubes give you several different paths to explore and ways to take on the stage. The levels are well designed and cleverly constructed and still manage to feel speedy and exciting despite slowing things down a notch. I love some of the platforming gags like how during the Zazz fight it starts with you chasing him then after running through some bushes for the rest of the fight HE's chasing you.

    You feel in total control of Sonic's movements, you can figure out how to maneuver him out of some impossible situations. It becomes really fluid when you figure out the game mechanics and how certain enemies work compared to others. I feel like the run button was a bad idea but I feel a sequel could take care of that.

    I'm not saying that would have been their next move, just think it was possible with the engine and playstyle. Especially because it's a good feeling game that could have been even more amazing with levels that truly took advantage of what worked with it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  7. Crasher

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    I feel like one of the issues with Lost World is how... unSonic it feels. There's no sense of speed or momentum. There's a good deal of platforming, but it doesn't really try to go for what made Sonic Sonic.

    The Boost games aren't very momentum focused, I'll admit that, but they try to emphasize a sense of speed with more twitch-platforming and keep with the arcade-like gameplay that the originals (and most Genesis games, fwiw) had. Lost World feels like Sonic Team were developing an original platformer, and upper management forced them to put Sonic in there "because Sonic sells".

    It's fine on it's own, but it's not a very good Sonic game. That's not to say it couldn't be changed to be more momentum/speed based: changing the movement to have less harsh speed-caps, giving the player proper ball physics while spin-dashing/in a ball, and allowing you to break the speedcap while rolling would do wonders to help make the game feel more like a Sonic game. I feel like the Run button isn't a bad idea mechanically, it's just not used properly in Lost World.
     
  8. Josh

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    Lost World had first game syndrome. The parkour concept wasn't bad on paper, but it was clunky, and didn't offer a convincing sense of speed, weight, or momentum. The gameplay style felt like it needed a sequel or two to iterate and polish those concepts before it could really shine. Unfortunately, Lost World was doomed as a Wii U exclusive, so the "parkour formula" is unlikely to ever get the chance.

    At the time, because we'd just been through an iterative cycle with Unleashed/Colors/Generations and come out with a consistent, polished formula for 3D Sonic, throwing all that progress aside and starting from square one was pretty frustrating, especially as someone who enjoys the boost and thought there was still plenty of untapped potential there. Back in 2013, I think I held those expectations against Lost World a little too much, but it's become easier to appreciate what it was trying to do over the years.
     
  9. qwertysonic

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    This was my issue with it. I don't even like the boost formula that much, but the fact that Sega took 3 games to iterate on it and make it fun was refreshing. By Sonic Generations, the boost mechanic actually seemed fun to me and then they threw it all away for something entirely different. It left a bad taste in my mouth.
    That and the fact that there were so many levels that just were all over the place like the stupid apples or snowball levels
     
  10. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Wow, I wasn't really intending to inspire simultaneous Lost World bashing and dick-sucking, I was mostly just kidding around. It's a decent Sonic game, I never meant it was amazing. It lacked a bit of fluidity (frankly, the 3DS version has better ground movement) and there weren't enough levels for some of the more out-there ones to not feel like interruptions, but it otherwise worked well enough and I think its presentation has a more consistent vision than most Sonic games, even if it's not my personal favorite. Most of the shitting-on comes from it not clarifying how a lot of its mechanics work and not having much of those good ol' marble physics I've never given that much of a shit about. I think the former is a problem and the latter depends on whether the game can make up for it in other departments, and I think it does.

    Frankly, they should have just taken the 3DS stages, stripped out all the bits where you have to fight a bazillion enemies or switches or use the fucking gyro (and possibly cut most of them in half), and made a longer main version with them. I've wanted a mod for that for years, since I think you can actually make new level slots in the PC version.

    In terms of incorporating its ideas, here's how you should do it:

    1. The run button should simply remove the cap that allows Sonic to accelerate to his max speed, Adventure-style. I guess that's technically what it does in the game, but the acceleration is too fast and the top speed is too low. Just add an option to keep it on all the time, and boom, you get the best of both worlds.

    2. The parkour button, which probably can still be the main button, should not be on all the time, or at least have a separate option from the run button, because you don't want to parkour accidentally.

    3. The parkour itself should have as much oomf as it does in the Wii U game, but still be a little bit stronger if you run into a wall with enough momentum ala the 3DS version. It should rarely if ever be mandatory, because the mandatory parkour in the 3DS version sucks.

    4. I honestly could take or leave the sphere platforming? It's barely a real mechanic in the game, more of an aesthetic choice.

    5. The spindash is actually perfect, just fix it so Sonic isn't for some reason in the rolling animation when he's charging and the charging animation when he's rolling.

    6. I don't know what to do with the compound homing attack. It's not used for anything interesting and all you really need to do is just hit the button again otherwise.

    7. The kick can probably go, but if it has to stay, make it a ranged attack like the 3DS version. That at least has some tangible difference from the console game and can be visually communicated with enemies that look like they shouldn't be touched.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  11. Wildcat

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    I agree with those who are pro-Lost World.

    Not the best 3D Sonic but still quite good. Definitely has a learning curve. I still cannot preform parkour very good but thankfully you don’t really need it.

    I remember one of the major reviews (I think IGN) ripped it apart saying they got rid of Sonic’s speed. Which is just false. You could tell they hated the changes they introduced.
     
  12. The Joebro64

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    I will say that Lost World as an overall package is better than Unleashed in my opinion.
     
  13. LucasMadword

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    I do agree with this, but then again... I did drop both of them, Unleashed due to boredom and Lost World due to just getting burned out by it's inconsistency. Latter doesn't at least make me hate the game, so I definitely think a Lost World sequel that really learned from the mistakes of the game could be great.
     
  14. Blue Spikeball

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    I might have enjoyed Lost World if it didn't have such awkward controls. It had some nice levels, but the controls made playing it just unengaging for me. The baffling gimmick levels and the awkward "classic Sonic meets Mario" style didn't help matters. The 3DS version had better controls, and even then it still didn't feel like I was playing a Sonic game.

    I do agree that X-treme looked like a lost cause, though. From the gameplay videos the levels looked extremely blocky (being literally made up of blocks), cramped and awkward in addition to having no sense of direction, not to mention the whole game felt years behind the competition.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  15. The Joebro64

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    I’ll admit that the best parts of Unleashed are better than anything in Lost World - Dragon Road is practically a perfect Sonic level IMO - but yeah, there was nothing in Lost World that incensed me to the point of shutting off the TV in rage
     
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  16. The biggest mark against Lost World was the timing of it; it came right after Generations, the most acclaimed game in years. So naturally, expectations were pretty high for the next game to continue that momentum. So it kind of came as a shock to see the series shift course so much after it finally established a formula that, while contentious among certain sects of the fanbase, was pretty well received overall. The fact that the game is pretty rough around the edges was another nail in its coffin, and many people just wrote it off as a weird ass experiment.

    I played the game a few years ago, and honestly I do think it has some merits that are pretty overlooked; the simplified artstyle isn't as graphically intensive, which meant that the game actually ran at a consistent 60FPS. The parkour was a neat idea that, if they had explained better how to use it, could have opened up tons of potential with the level design. Sonic's animations are so bouncy and well animated, the subtle squash and stretch he does whenever he jumps is a joy to watch.


    If the game wasn't on Wii U, which was a doomed console to begin with, Sega might have continued with it and explored it further. Its just kind of sad that we're likely never going to explore something like it again, cuz I would at least be considerate of a sequel if it had incorporated more Sonic-like design into its skeleton.


    Think the reason opinions are flipping towards Lost World because Forces showed that the Boost was severely starting to show its age. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.
     
  17. Wildcat

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    I think they should include 1 finished Sonic Xtreme stage as an unlockable bonus. They’re never gonna bring it back but just as a bonus stage of some kind it would definitely fit somewhere.

    I know by now it’d probably be impacted by some modern elements (I mean modern gameplay not Modern Sonic) that might not have been used or thought of when they were developing it but if they can recreate 1 stage and complete it in someway, give it a purpose, it’d be really cool to see what they were going for.

    I have a hard time judging the demo videos because they’re clearly so unfinished.
     
  18. Laura

    Laura

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    In 10 years time people will be saying that Forces was actually an underappreciated masterpiece.
     
  19. foXcollr

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    I agree that Lost World did a lot of things right, and honestly it's at least a very polished game. The animation thing I completely agree on; even though stylistically I wasn't a fan, the level of bounciness and life they gave Sonic was pretty cool. They tried something new and put forward a full, complete product that WASN'T broken or obviously rushed.

    As far as level design, there's still a heaping helping of 2D dominating a lot of the stages, which kinda negates the whole parkour aspect of the game for me. Some level segments are just straightforward tubes or tunnels, which I don't like. A prime example of this is Windy Hill Act 3, which is literally just a long tunnel with a few nearly identical-looking caverns and the same ball-dodging and homing-attacking rinse and repeat the entire way through. The gravity thing is still cool and tbh I don't mind that they took that inspiration from Galaxy, but it doesn't seem like Lost World does nearly as much with the idea as Galaxy does.

    They don't seem to expand on the parkour elements nearly enough either. Like, they give Sonic a wallrun and triangle jump ability, but look at Desert Ruins... it's the second stage and Act 1 barely does anything creative with those mechanics, save for that vertical 2D section. The 3D sections seem mostly flat. Then they give you a Mach Speed section. Then they throw you into a full 2D level. It doesn't feel like it expands on the parkour mechanics too much or in any meaningful way; you're 2 stages into the game and they just gave you 2 acts with no parkour.

    I agree they could've done a lot more if they gave it a second try and - like 5993 said - injected more Sonic-like design into the game, rather than committing to this cartoony bargain bin Mario aesthetic.

    Overall, the game takes inspiration from a lot of cool games and ideas, but - despite an attempt to put its own spin on them - pretty much all of those ideas feel super under-cooked. Rather than being new takes on old ideas, they feel like imitation just for the sake of imitation. In my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  20. RDNexus

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    Oh, please, I sure hope not. It'd become a new low for the franchise.
    Forces pretty much failed in the many things it wanted to accomplish.
    To me, it became a half-baked attempt at pleasing the raging fanbase.
     
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