"Multiple" new Sonic games planned for 2021

I remember him saying that, but he also was away from the Mania Plus project iirc, or at the very least not part of Evening Star.
It's also true that you see talents just leave some successful franchises after a while on their won accord to pursue another goals, even when they risk leaving better jobs to focus on smaller things, or maybe even bigger things, but they leave out of their comfort places all the same.
That's just my thought

 

And for what it's worth, I'll say my bit again - what about this "leak" is "a hardcore Adventure fan's Christmas list"?

Is it the idea that Sega will put focus on modern Sonic over classic Sonic? Because it should be apparent to everyone that that's how they feel. Even the most recent content they've put out related to looking forward, the Sonic 101 video, calls classic "Classic" and calls modern Sonic... "Sonic". That Sonic is Sonic, to basically the entire company as well as the public eye, and classic Sonic (the brand, not the games) is pretty obviously a side to that.

Is it the idea of the 3D Sonic game? Having multiple playable characters and returning to the Spin Dash over the boost is just things any 3D Sonic game could do if they felt like it. If it's the 'unlockable powerups' thing you're caught on, it's also not like that's locked to the Adventure era; as even Unleashed does it. None of this is really far-fetched for expectations, and honestly we've seen MUCH more ludicrous statements, let alone been given much more ludicrous real games.

What it really sounds like is people not willing to see what Sonic is to Sega, nor what it is to people outside of this circle. Sonic is just as much about the Genesis games that put it on the map as it is the games that followed them. And I too would've gladly taken more classic-styled games if they were given to me, but I feel like Mania was really a flash in the pan thing whether we like it or not.

 

You can have bias towards something while not trashing something else. That's kind of the crux of the issue here. Liking Classic Sonic is not the same as hating Modern Sonic.


In any case, this leak is kind of whatever to me, even speaking as a "hardcore adventure fan", I stopped caring about the amount of playable characters a long time ago as I realized they're not really the issue. I'd certainly LOVE to play as my favorites again, but it's kind of meaningless if the game isn't good and nothing Sega have done has convinced me of that. If anything, all of this is just window dressing for the real problems of the series that Sega refuse to acknowledge.

And the fact that they seemingly have no interest in the design philosophies set forth by Mania in spite of its reception is just baffling to me, and the biggest thing that reinforces that they've learned nothing. Whenever Sonic has a good idea, they always scrap it and move on to something else without ever refining it, and that's frustrating as fuck.

So no, this isn't me being happy that Classic fans are "getting a taste of their own medicine", I share the same frustrations many of you have. But I'm not gonna sit here and act like this site hasn't routinely trashed the Modern branch for years now in spite of it being equally as valid as the Classic Branch.

 

I understand your grievances, but it’s not like games from Adventure onwards have been derided simply for being new. Every major mainline game since 1998 has been marred by either technically unstable gameplay, questionable design choices or simply failing to capture what made those original games so revered.

As I’ve stated prior in this thread, I got into this series on the Rush and Advance games; I think there almost every mainline Sonic game has brought its own admirable ideas and qualities to the table. I’m not somebody who'd identify as a classic fan before a Sonic fan in general.

The trouble is the newer games really don’t have a patch on the original trilogy in their execution. Particularly on this site, they disappoint because more often than not the games are mechanically shallow compared to the classics. I’ll keep enjoying the entries I like regardless, and I encourage you to do so too, and while there is toxicity in the community, there needs to be an acceptance that there will be difference in opinion, sometimes radically so.

Someone ragging on a game you enjoy is not an attack on you, so please don’t feel that way. I empathise with what you’re saying but bitterness does nothing for anybody.

 

You're kind of preaching to the choir; I'm not naïve, I understand that most of the post-1998 games are technical disasters compared to their 2D predecessors, and said problems have yet to be addressed even 20 years after the fact. But just because that's the case doesn't mean that they don't have anything to offer whatsoever, and that most of the problems of the early 3D games were issues that were prevalent all over the industry at the time. Criticize the fact that the games haven't really moved past those problems, sure by all means, but that doesn't mean they had no merits whatsoever. Underneath all of the crap that the 3D games have is a solid foundation, but it always feels like nobody is willing to acknowledge that which has bred the inherent belief that 3D Sonic is terrible and the series only works in 2D.

That's why there's such a push for a return to the early style established by Sonic Adventure; its not just nostalgia, but an honest to god interest in trying to address those early 3D problems and (hopefully) actually fixing them to serve as a foundation for better games in the future. I love Mania, and still play it to this day, but I'm tired of being told that's the only way Sonic works.

 

The rumor outright says that it's "allegedly a return to Adventure". Though for me, it feels like a huge callback to the 2000s era of Sonic, which is a bit distinct from what Overlord is saying. A game that sounds like a new Adventure game, a game that sounds like a new Advance/Rush game...I imagine this info would make a lot of people from that time giddy.

 

Sure, I totally agree with that, it’s just that the shortcomings of the games are often so pervasive that they over shadow those merits.

I’m in full support of celebrating what worked about these games, and while the discussion on what has gone wrong in each game post the originals has been done to death, I don’t find it hard to see why this is case.

Hell, even the pre-Adventure games aren’t free of this. Sonic CD is readily bashed for its eclectic level design, Labyrinth for being based around the absence of Sonic’s defining trait, so on, so forth.

 

It's from Zippo specifically; he DMed people on Tails Channel the link to the blog, due to the "no self promotion" rule, and we all spread it from there. It's not much different from what he's been saying in the channel for several months now, honestly. It's only because the main lobby gets reset every time it hits a pin limit that the information will be a lot harder to dig up now.

 

In his words:



He's not saying they called it a return to Adventure, he's using it's likeness to compare how it plays. Note the " -slash- traditional platformer" part. So the commentary of that as well as the assumption that it could be Dimps making the 2D game are both his own thoughts, not indicative statements of what Sega is thinking.

 

Believe me, lot of people here were angry when the whole "Sonic Cycle" thing started and folks like IGN started hating anything and everything Sonic. That's kind of my whole point. You're literally just directing your frustration at a bunch of people who mostly agree with you, and nobody really needs to hear it. That's all I'll say.

Even though the focus of the site is generally on the "retro" games, a whole lot of people here enjoy modern Sonic and have never said they hate it or think it's all trash. You're projecting a whole other issue onto a small community of people. I understand being upset about that issue because a lot of us are too, but it seems pretty misdirected.

I will say I've definitely seen people in the forums who hate everything modern Sonic and obsess over the classics, but they aren't speaking for everyone

 

Honestly I don't actually buy that the gameplay style is an actual part of the leak, given how he was previously speculating on that on TC with a "they seem to be done with Boost" comment rather than a "they are done" comment, after he listed his personal reasons for why it doesn't work in the same posts. So I'd definitely chalk it up to the speculation side of the post, unless he actually wants to stand behind it as sourced info now instead.

 

Good guy Sega. Despite having already realized this after Generations, resulting in the release of Lost World, they still made another boost game (Forces) because people wanted one.

 

Its funny that you mentioned CD, because its a perfect illustration of my point lol.

Before 2011, it's reputation was divisive at best with some calling it a gem and others calling it out on its bizarre design choices and controls.

Taxman's port of the game breathe new life into it, re-introduced it to modern audiences, addressed the issues about it and it's reception improved significantly as a result and people generally remember it much more fondly now.

That's what I want for 3D Sonic; for the series to finally address these issues they've been getting and actually do something about it so people can actually start respecting this series again.

 

Regardless, I think your closing remarks really hit the nail on the head, and that’s what I was talking about when responding to your comment on people being bothered by the idea of classic Sonic being retired as a gameplay visual; it’s throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Sonic Heroes? Brilliant concept of team based gameplay with a focus on combat through attribute based roles, let down by padding and largely railroaded execution.

Advance 2? A wonderfully frenetic, high octane game that rewarded quick reflexes and intimacy with level layouts in a way that reflected the classics while still standing apart from them, hampered by its tendency to excessively punish a player lacking those things in a manner that demands mastery of the game before experiencing its highest highs.

Advance 3? A more in-depth, pair based mechanic compared to what Heroes offered that incentivised experimentation, unfortunately marred by messy level designs that were cluttered to the point of being hard to learn.

Just three games which introduced brilliant new ideas that have been fairly derided for their shortcomings. And that’s not even mentioning the likes of Lost World and other more experimental games.

While it is very important that Sonic Team takes heed of what has been done wrong in games prior, it is equally important that they learn lessons from the best of each game and really key in on what defined them positively. My belief is that’s how you recreate what people love without relying on superficial iconography.

 

It's interesting how a little probably-fake leak has made this thread so active again. Really goes to show how dead silent Sega has been. Maybe I've said this a few too many times, but the silence is kinda nice. I'd rather have radio silence followed by a solid product than periodic announcements for games that are, well.... I mean they're games at least

 

Adventure 1 and 2 are twenty years old.

Nothing else to add. I just find it funny how they're never considered "old" Sonic games when they are from literally 4 console generations ago and less than ten years from the Genesis trilogy. S3 and SA1 are literally less than half a decade apart. I know people who are fully-fledged legal adults in the United States who weren't alive when the Dreamcast was shuttered. For all intents and purposes, they are "retro".

 

I was gonna mention this actually, but you beat me to the punch lol. Yeah, people have been posting every few minutes, and I'm loving it tbh. It's great hearing everyone's thoughts on the franchise shift and rumors

 

I consider my views on the franchise very outside the fanbase in a lot of ways. I recognise that Sonic 1, 2, CD, 3 are probably better than what came afterwards, but they all have major flaws. Sonic 1 has growing pains and a lot of dull, tedious levels. Sonic 2 has irritating difficulty spikes and kind of falls apart at the end. I love Sonic CD but it is very whack and an acquired taste. Sonic 3 has levels which greatly vary in quality and is less original than its predecessors. I think all of the classics are messy to a certain extent and are treated as more perfect than they actually are. The very concept of a super fast platformer is a strange one to begin with and I'd argue even the game's fundamental principle is messy. I think Mania is the only Sonic game to be almost perfectly designed, but its levels are also too long, it is too derivitive, its story is nonsensicle, and the last few zones are weaker than what came before.

I just find most of the 'Classic Sonic is so much better than what came after' so boring. I like SA1, 2, Colors Generatioms despite the myriad of flaws each game had. We don't need to live in a zero-sum world where the glorious classics are put on a pedestal and the good 3D games are derided for their failings. I do get it, SA1 and SA2 are probably not good products, but Sonic's stages are fun and had a lot of potential. There's no reason why we can't have a 3D game in that vein and also more Classic Sonic.

I dunno, I just think I'm maybe unusual for thinking the Classics are superior but loving some of the 3D games despite their flaws. And not in a rose tinted glasses kind of way, but in a 'SA1 clearly has a fuckton of issues but I'd be lying if I said I don't enjoy the hell out of Sonic's stages and much of the rest of the game' kind of way.

It seems to be either 'the Classics are great and the 3D games always sucked' or 'I hate Classic Sonic and I just want to see Modern Sonic'. It's so tedious.