Bashing Sonic Mania

Yup, that was me.

It's a bit more than "swapping out the odd spring for a moving floating platform" - most of the challenges in the game have been reworked. If you try and play through most of Mania mode stages while holding down and doing the occasional spindash, it'll let you (one of my complaints about the level design). If you try to do the same in Encore mode, you'll get nowhere - you actually have to do platforming. I just did a quick run through of GHZ and LRZ in both modes, and for the most part there's a change every couple of screen-widths (... I really don't know how to measure distance otherwise...), usually to make the game require some player agency instead of just playing itself.

Yes, the level structure is mostly the same, that's the point. It's the small changes that make the big difference - a complete level structure change but with the same challenges would look like a different level, but it wouldn't play or feel like a different level. When I make levels I actually just wrote a script that creates the general structure for me. I make some manual tweaks to it myself of course, but I'm confident that the structure itself can be more-or-less anything, it's the micro level that controls how the game plays.

Even having said that, there are a few changes to level structure too. A few of the lower areas in GHZ are now accessed in completely different ways, and LRZ actually blocks off a couple of alternate routes in order to make you snake down them instead.

But the main reason I like the Encore mode layouts is because they improve upon the Mania mode layouts, which are generally mediocre. Given a choice I'd rather have Mania mode use Encore mode's layout, and Encore mode do something wackier - I'm agreed with you there.

Go one step further and use random level generation

Removal of boss fights would improve the base game too.

 

Thanks for that, Digital Duck, although I still totally disagree. I've played through Mania mode countless times and Encore Mode several times too, but I just fail to see the vast majority of the differences that you see. I'm not playing or engaging with the game any differently in one mode compared to the other. I'm sure that if I was to specifically play one zone in Mania Mode and then immediately after do the same zone again in Encore Mode I would pick up on a few more differences, but nothing substantial. I think that by only making a handful of differences to the actual level structures across the entirety of Encore Mode, a lot of players won't really recognise the object placement changes.

 

I notice Encore Mode changes a *lot* more in some stages than others. Titanic Monarch is the most standout example. I'd have to do a deeper analysis on the map to try to figure out WHY, but it never really clicked with me until Encore Mode. It was such a nice surprise to find myself actually ENJOYING the zone.

Most of the palette changes are pretty bad, though. For those on PC, I recommend the Colorful Encore mod: https://gamebanana.com/skins/165662

 

I enjoyed Encore Mode for what it was, and the alternate gameplay mechanic is neat, though I really can't remember noticing any layout differences. Is there a mod that makes Mania Mode use Encore layouts, keeping normal palettes etc.? It could improve the game for me if only for the replacement of the Tornado act.

EDIT: Not on the subject of Encore mode, but am I the only one who didn't like the return of act 1 bosses? I'm not a big fan of them in 3&K in the first place, and seeing them come back for Mania was expected but disappointing nonetheless. It also bloats the game with more bad bosses than it needs.

 

I think Encore Mode is awful, sorry. The palletes are either hideous, boring, or okay. The player switching is mildly amusing but not enough to carry the mode. There are some changes in level design, I do notice them, but they seem negligible to me. Even if they were major changes, I just wouldn't think it would be interesting enough to warrant DLC.

I also think that the pinball table is awful. It feels horrible to play with the broken physics and it only has one table. It doesn't feel fun to play over and over like the one in Sonic 3 either.

Also, what is Encore's place in the story even? I know this is a minor complaint, but it really bothers me. Is it canon? On one hand it seems to be because Sonic gets teleported to Encore from presumably the Forces portal, but then it's just Mania all over again with a nonsensical ending.

So yeah, Mania is excellent but Encore is its Achilles' heel. I forget it even exists.

 

I don't think the characters fundamentally change the game enough for me to really care about the randomization features that Encore provides. I enjoy character switching in something like Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon 2 because I have to play each of them differently to make use of strengths and weaknesses; the loss of a character in that game can throw me out of my comfort zone and seriously change up my experience, which is quite a thrill.
Losing a character in Mania doesn't really have the same kind of impact because at most it stops me from using Tails or Knuckles's abilities to slow climb up to or fly over something—and I usually don't want to kill my speed like that so I wouldn't use their abilities even if I had the option. Ray and Sonic are the only characters whose abilities I find fun, so they're the only two I ever willingly use.
I really don't like most of the palettes. There are plenty of significant changes to level design but it can feel pretty haphazard.

 

I like the character swapping of encore mode. No the characters aren't super different, and that's exactly why I want to change between them. I like playing as one for a while, then I feel like a change of pace so I switch. Why play through Mania mode 5 times with different characters when I can just mix it up every once and a while without retreading old ground. I also like seeing different character combos. Why we're limited to Sonic & Tails and & Knuckles in Mania mode is beyond me, hell why is Mighty & Ray not an option? Sometimes I want to see Mighty & Sonic, or Knuckles & Ray, or whatever.

Encore's palettes are ass though. Oh boy, orange, purple and brown. Reminds me of my company's awful branding colors. Oh and shame Vapor mode didn't make it in the final, because I use it on the PC version and it adds a nice touch. It should have been encore's default soundtrack. And I know Crash 4 came out a month ago, but maybe Encore mode would have been better off as more of a mirror mode ala N.verse levels, where you go right to left instead of left to right and some wacky effect mixes up each zone (but encore's level layout changes remained). Might have been less repetitive that way.

 

I think @BlackHole went over this in the lore thread, but it makes more sense for Mania Adventures to be canon in place of Encore Mode.

 

Personally I can't stand the Special Stages in Encore Mode. They're just way too difficult.

 

Wait I need to check that out. Might even get it on the PC too – I only have it on the PS4 lol.