Indeed. Some of us enjoy watching an ongoing story, even if it's in the background, hence our interest in proper continuity. For instance, I stand by the personal interpretation of the Classic Era timeline I posted a while ago, 8-Bit and all, because the 8-Bit games sometimes come off as writing around what happened in the Mega Drive games. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive) leads into Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Master System): Robotnik kidnaps Tails. Would anyone here be surprised if Robotnik kidnapped Tails as revenge for what happened with the Death Egg? Especially since the kit was integral to its fall. No Tails, no catching the rocket that took Sonic to the Death Egg and let him take it down. Sonic Triple Trouble quietly ties itself as a prequel to Sonic the Hedgehog 3 by making use of the ambiguous time period between when Robotnik told Knuckles of Sonic and when Sonic and Tails find out about the Death Egg crashing into Angel Island. Even the ending kind of ties into the manual's story, with Sonic and Tails shown to be flying to an island, which might be the same one mentioned in the Sonic the Hedgehog 3 manual. Sonic Blast says Knuckles seems more like he wants to punish Robotnik rather than collect the five gems the Chaos Emerald Sonic carried split into, likely for what he did in Sonic the Hedgehog 3. It's little events like these that give us a quiet, continuing story arc split between the games. And if you don't like them, they really don't change much of the Mega Drive games. The most you get is Knuckles fought Sonic off Angel Island first before they got to Angel Island, where the actually important events occurred for his plot. The Death Egg is still ambiguous in how long it took to fall, so that goes unchanged beyond our own personal timeline of events: some say fairly quickly after Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive), some would say maybe a month or two, all we have is "the Death Egg has just started to fall." The point is, some of us enjoy little story arcs like that. Keep them vague, so those of us that don't care can ignore it, but those of us that do can play the games and see the story. Like what they did with Sonic Battle and Sonic Advance 3. You don't need to play Sonic Battle for Sonic Advance 3: Without it, Robotnik builds a powerful robot that Sonic and friends fight. It's a standard story, nothing wrong with it, all's good. With it, you get an emotional connection to the robot you helped raise a game ago, and want to deal with Robotnik for what he did to it. You don't need a connection, but those of us that like it are happy, while those of us that don't care can continue not to care.
I would agree in a more standard situation, but Sonic is the case where everything started great, then was ok but not the same, and finally it became an absolute nonsense because they prefer to throw the first shit they see instead of taking notes and give a proper answer with some actual thinking behind it. Remember the discussion about where to put Sonic the Fighters in a timeline because there are 8 chaos emeralds that were supposed to be protected by Sonic friends all around the world: that game throws away at the same time the theory of multiple sets of chaos emeralds and the single set of seven plus the master emerald one which became the official approach. You can either build a fan explanation ("one was fake but still powerful enough"), or discard it from the timeline, but can't put it in a timeline with both classic and modern games without a drop of fanon to do the job. Dont' get me wrong, I do know we need those drops of fanon to link some games together, but, in that example, you're doing that just to give it a chance to fit somewhere. Back in the day, where a case like that would be the worst kind of issue to deal with, there could be fun arranging the games in a timeline, but there's now three decades of games where only about the first five years made sense, and roughly half that time was working enough for the main games to say there was a continuity. meanwhile we get random plots with even more random official fixes, so the "fun" of making a timeline gets too convoluted and probably wastes to much of our time. There's when I say "fuck official sources" and make my fanon with just the stuff I like and ignore the rest. Easier, with a satisfying result, and as much determining for the future of the series as Iizuka's statements. I'll tell you something that's a bit offtopic but shows clearly how little we can rely in Sonic games having a fitting setting and story for Sonic lore: the plot for Unleashed mirrors key elements of the plots for the trilogy of SNES action-RPGs Soul Blazer, Illusion of Gaia/Time, and Terranigma, the last one being the most evident case. The first part of Terranigma involves restoring continents one by one, the plot starts by getting some flying buddy of unknown origin, and all the story revolves around the conflict between Light Gaia and Dark Gaia, with Dark Gaia being the final boss. Those games constantly link the light and the dark entities with God and Devil, and the games have quite a heavy philosophic tone and concepts more mature than the average youngster playing them, so tell me: wtf is doing a watered down version of the plot of a serious RPG doing in a Sonic game? It may have been valid, but you know, there's probably more fitting plots for Sonic out there without going stupid like in Lost World. EDIT: Forgot to add the quote.
Considering you always fight your own character, I figured it was simply seven Chaos Emeralds (from everyone else), and eight was to not confuse people on why you're fighting this eighth character instead of stopping at seven. If I absolutely had to include eight, I'd retcon one of them into, as you said, a false Chaos Emerald that acts as more of a step-down transformer than an actual Chaos Emerald. Would not do to have the Lunar Fox detonate mid-travel because the Chaos Emeralds overloaded it, after all. (We can still discuss how we'd fix the continuity after the merge, right?)
Well, to be fair, I get my posts send conflicting signals, and that I'm not being fair with my statements, but it's mostly because all that process of coping with what the Sonic series has become after what it has been, continuity included. When I stopped worrying about Sonic not being what I thought it should be, I stopped caring about details because everything went on the same wagon of increasing mediocrity and projects made just to have something to release. Plus I usually spend my creativity on my own stuff even if it's fan stuff (oh, the day I can release a fangame...). It's not that I don't find interesting doing the kind of things you do, it's just the official thing actively discourages and hinders doing so.
Eh, I'm just a Sonic the Hedgehog and The Legend of Zelda fan. I've organised that timeline into a better fitting one (the Four Swords subseries acts as a better precursor to A Link to the Past compared to Ocarina of Time, seeing as that's what those games were made for), I've organised all the Sonic the Hedgehog games into a singular timeline. I just really enjoy the activity, it's interesting and lets you dig into tidbits of lore you'd otherwise miss. For instance: Chaotix establishes that Espio is actually jealous of Knuckles, as he is a fan of the ancient civilisation that cropped up around the series and has explored the ruins, hence his presence on Carnival Island. Knuckles, meanwhile, lives on an island directly related to that civilisation. That's all well and good, until you remember where you fight Espio in Sonic the Fighters: Mushroom Hill Zone, aka Angel Island. Looks like Knuckles invited him onto the island after the events of Chaotix. These small details and connections are interesting, when you take a closer look you'll see a bit more between the lines than you would simply reading the book. Just don't focus on that, as if you keep reading between the lines you'll miss what was written in the book.
At the end of Sonic Triple Trouble, Sonic frees Knuckles from a cage in Eggman's base, then they shake hands.
The shaking of hands does not mean best friends forever. Considering Knuckles was rather reluctant, it comes off as more sportsmanship than friendliness. As for the cage, we don't see how Knuckles was put in that cage. Fang was also present in the base, but runs off when Robotnik comes in with the final boss vehicle: he may have had a hand and left Robotnik 'clean' of that situation. Also to note that in Sonic Triple Trouble, Knuckles goes after Sonic with Robotnik's vehicles, while in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 he's more diverting Sonic's course as he travels over Angel Island rather than acting completely hostile. Until they start getting worrying close to the Master Emerald, of course.
After waiting at the exit for Sonic to reach it. Give it a watch: he's stood there waiting for Sonic to actually reach the exit he's stood at before throwing the bomb. He doesn't move, indicating he's been there for a little while, instead of running in from off screen, which would have implied he'd only just got there too late to do harm. If anything, he does more harm to Launch Base Zone.
Sorry for the double post, I'll merge once there's a response, but I thought this would be a more interesting activity for the thread instead of debating timelines. So in the Japanese versions, Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes have a bit of a continuity joke: Sonic makes reference to his line to Shadow before they start their climactic race to the Eclipse Cannon when Team Sonic and Team Dark encounter one another. Does anyone else have a reference to a prior game in the continuity they particularly enjoyed?
In Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic references the Biolizard towards the end of the game when he's fighting the Earth Dragon: That was a nice little reference.
26:37. Ian Flynn confirmed that Sonic's world and the human world are literally two different planets in two different dimensions.
One of my favorites was this bit from Colors DS: this was mentioned in one of the Colors threads but the DS version has the playable Sonic Heroes cast + Blaze & Silver in it for optional missions. Pretty much everyone is characterized really well, it's one of the things I love about that version of the game
Sod it, Modern Sonic ended with Sonic Unleashed. What is the logic here? Here's a question for SEGA: If the cast can so casually hop dimensions to the point Amy has a home on a different planet, unless we think she was planning to eat those groceries in a frigging back-alley during Sonic Adventure, then how the f**k was Blaze such a big deal when she came in from another dimension? "Oh hey, you're from another dimension? Awesome, I'll be able to get you back home in a jiffy!"
Contrivances probably ordered by SEGA to maintain their current status on the continuity matter. Stupidities solely for the stupidity's sake, that's what. I don't see any other reason for all of that.
Seriously, who do I have to write an essay too so I can explain in 500 pages how badly this hurts the franchise and how it's causing someone who has been a fan literally nearly since birth and has, ever since they could pay for the games themselves, bought them all day one and marathon them to completion to outright consider dropping the franchise until SEGA pack this idiocy in?
Dude, all of those qualifiers apply to me, too. I've been a fan pretty much as far back as I remember, I bought all the games, I marathon them and plays them constantly. But the current canon explanation (two worlds, and classic and Adventure are separate dimensions) has been percolating as my headcanon since at least 2002, because it was the only explanation that fit to me. Evidence for it goes back to at least Sonic X, and it seems like Sonic Team might've been bouncing the "two worlds" concept around as far back as the OVA, what with its "land of darkness" that appears to be a post-apocalyptic Earth. And of course, the 2020 movie takes the idea and runs with it, finally letting us see those "giant rings" that Flynn mentions. (And in that regard, the whole idea of Sonic being transported to an alternate dimension goes back to the very first special stage.) Having said that... the stories and the depictions of canon haven't always remotely suited me. I thought the Adventure redesigns were unappealing and ugly when I first saw them. I missed the Freedom Fighters and wondered why Amy of all characters was getting a spotlight over Sally. I thought Sonic's characterization was awful throughout most of the 2000s, I thought Shadow being brought back to life in an underwhelming and convoluted way cheapened everything I'd liked about the character in SA2, I didn't watch Sonic X primarily BECAUSE it was happening in the far less interesting (and far more Thorndyke-y) human world. I thought Generations' explanation of making Classic Sonic a literal YOUNGER version of modern was nonsense... so I just ignored it and kept running with my own headcanon. None of this ever would've made me consider ending my fandom. I could nitpick it for not matching my preferences, but my preferences are just my preferences. And I think even going back to Sonic X, "two worlds" comes about specifically as a result of trying to mold a bunch of divergent styles of games into fitting with the preferences of as many individual fans as possible. It's an explanation for why a bright neon video game level featuring a series of impossible enormous pinball tables and absolutely no people... Can be directly followed up by a game where human military officers are running around and the cities look like this: These two places, thematically speaking, don't seem like they should be part of the same universe. But they can both happen within this series, and "two worlds" is the justification. But I think one reason it's divisive is because it IS, as of now, mostly used as a justification. In my opinion, this didn't really NEED a "Word of God" explanation, at least not if they weren't going to show Sonic & pals travelling between worlds in the same game. ANY explanation would've divided fans, so I think it would've been preferable to just make the games they wanted to make, and let us believe what we wanted.
Surely the simplest way to explain everything would be to assume that the Chaos Emeralds (whether that be a singular set, or multiple sets) are responsible for the fact that the realities we see are rarely consistent. They're artifacts that result in creative chaos in whatever multiversal construct comprises all the different continuities. This results in wacky reality bending levels like giant pinball cities or checkerboard loop-de-loops, or whatever bizarre architecture they decide to throw at us in a future game, as well as perpetual retcons within these realities. Heck, maybe the Special Stage dimensions and Power Ring systems were literally designed to keep the Emerald powers in check. Bringing order to chaos. Solidify a constantly shifting reality into a cohesive whole. Indeed, wasn't there some sort of speculation in the original game's JP manual that postulated that South Island's location varied and didn't have a fixed point? Eggman however, wants to use their power to shape reality in his own image. That is, rather than "order to chaos" he wants "order FROM chaos". Sonic meanwhile, doesn't agree with Eggman's plans and nature, but is so freewheeling and chaotic himself, that he literally doesn't CARE what the result is, as long as he defeats Eggman's attempt at creating order. They're sort of eternal enemies that transcend the confines of any one reality, which could explain why Sonic is regarded as some kind of venerable figure in Angel Island's Hydro City?
And yet, it never was before Iizuka. Iizuka has done nothing but interfere and mess up the hard work of the people before him, altering everything randomly and laughing it off with flimsy justifications he made up on the fly. I can not tolerate someone who clearly doesn't care about either the hard work the people who directed the series before him simply to apply concepts that make even less sense just because that's what he thought was happening, resulting in 5 different worlds* now to my absolute bafflement, or the longtime fans who have enjoyed watching the characters grow into these unique individuals, instead flanderising them into these mimics of other characters, like turning Shadow into Vegeta. It just feels like a beloved relative slowly drinking themselves to death, we're watching them become a shell of their former selves, rambling on about anything and everything. I'm not going to keep supporting that, simply because "oh, I still love them." I love this series, despite all of it's ups and downs, but I also don't want to give them my money if my money is going to be tossed in things like Edge the Hedgey instead of Shadow the Hedgehog, and giving us such wonderful new additions to the story like the Deadly Six and the hatchet used to cut the world into itty bitty pieces that they'll try to shove down our throat. If they're so dedicated to making the series for children, then they'll lose an adult's support, simple as that. *The five worlds are: Sonic's World The Human World The Classic World Silver's World, which is now being treated as a separate dimension Blaze's World Only one of these makes sense. The other four were once the same planet, but not any more apparently. Isn't that perfectly logical?
This is really interesting because it does really shot down the theory that many, including myself, held that the two worlds thing was a mistranslation. I do wonder if there's "lore" behind the scenes that explains some of the inconsistencies in some of the games, or if it's something that they only follow if need be. For example, why in Sonic Adventure is Angel Island and the Mystic Ruins in the human world? Or even some Echidna ruins in Sonic Adventure 2? Was there a Chaos Control event offscreen a la Sonic X were something like this happened that misplaced some of the locations from Sonic's world? In Sonic 06 are Silver and Blaze from Sonic's world but somehow ended up in the human world that was destroyed by Iblis? And after Solaris gets destroyed and the events from that game don't happen, is Silver living in a new doomed human world or Sonic's world? Can he also jump between worlds? If the human world was established to have a place where more grounded locations can be used, then why was G.U.N. randomly mentioned in Zero Gravity? The game with all those futuristic locations and flying cars/extreme gear? Sonic Rush seems to be taking place in Sonic's world, but Huge Crisis seems to be taking place in a G.U.N. fleet. Either that's G.U.N. and somehow Cream has a home in the human world, or there's a G.U.N equivalent with even the same mechs in their world? I do agree that the Chaos Emeralds are involved since both worlds seemed to have locations and ruins associated with them. And I feel that the Sonic X explanation that the two worlds were the same but a cataclysmic event divided them most likely applies to this lore...but that still doesn't really explain some of the issues that the games have with this two worlds thing.
