lol the sarcastic response about making good art might make sense if Sega haven't been constantly making boneheaded decisions for ages now... there's something to be said about fucking up ONCE due to lack of foresight (basically, literally everything involving Sonic 3's music rights and composers) and somehow managing to mess up different things repeatedly, even with things that turn out well (again, Mania's PC release being delayed to force in Denuvo against the wishes the devs, for instance). And that's the amazing thing, that they try so many different things with the series and the vast, vast majority of them just aren't executed well at all, which implies problems with the process itself. Fuckin Nintendo experiments with their properties. Sometimes they pan out; sometimes they don't. Yet quite often even their main games that change a bunch of things manage to work, at a high level of polish, and with different teams at that. Sonic Team threw out everyone involved with Lost World and we got Forces. Good job.
Are we now going to sit here and pretend that every product is developed and released in a vacuum where expectations and standards don’t exist, and that comparisons and attractions to other products in a market are meaningless? If you’re really sure there is absolutely no way for Sega to evaluate how any of their products or decisions will be received then I’d argue what I just described is the logical conclusion to what you are suggesting. Citing “subjectivity“ as a defense for Sega’s decision-making also only goes so far if we’re going to ignore their long checkered history of making decisions that are egregious enough that it goes beyond personal preference. You could technically argue that selling rocks in sandwiches is subjectively a great idea but good luck trying to sell that concept to virtually anybody, especially when you’ve pitched similar concepts over the last twenty-to-thirty-something years. “Subjectivity” isn’t a get-out-of-jail free card for decades of choices widely agreed to be highly dubious at best. I mean, if you honestly believe that the Sonic movie we’re going to get is the best people could ever hope for from a Sonic movie, then sure I guess...
If most game companies have done the crap that Sega has been doing with Sonic for the past 20 years or so, they would've gone bankrupt a long time ago. The Sonic franchise gets away with a lot of crap because people seem to have virtually no standards towards the series and just blindly throw money at it for brand loyalty and little else. Sega really needs to be held accountable for making garbage for so long, but they never are, and there's rarely ever any serious consequences to their actions because people are always giving them a free pass. And if you dare to criticize the blue jerk, you get swarmed by defenders that immediately label you a hater or a troll or whatever because they can't fathom that maybe, just MAYBE, people don't like the crap that Sega has been pulling for so long and are getting fed up with it.
Also - Sonic is supposed to be their flagship franchise. It's their main mascot for almost 30 years, 23 of that being in the 3D era. We've been in the 'modern' era for longer than the classic one. You'd think they would know what their fans want, and what their cannon storyline is. They aren't some indie crew praying that the game is well received on launch day, they should have focus groups and marketing teams working with developers and directors to create something that will fit in the franchise and appeal to their audience ... (Sonic Generations was a hit that a lot of people loved. Why follow that up with Sonic Lost World? They KNOW what fans liked just a single game ago?) There will always be people defending egregious garbage. For some reason Sonic's fanbase has a loud minority for almost unanimously critically panned trash. I'm personally beyond giving them any defense on games like Sonic Forces, or agreeing to this movie.
I'm proud to say I haven't purchased a contemporary Sonic game in my life outside of Sonic Mania (okay Sonic Genesis for the GBA as well :p). Everything I've played was rented from a local store or a library, and everything I own now was bought on ebay years after they were out of print.
Thanks for cutting to the crux of the matter. To extend your metaphor, not everyone likes the same sandwich filling. Does that mean that Sega should just stop trying new recipes when they get a filling that satisfies some people, or should they keep innovating and looking for different fillings? Because Sega hasn't consistently been putting rocks in the sandwiches, unless you want to claim they've been putting different rocks in each sandwich. The fact that they continuously change things up is the only real consistency since the Mega Drive. Finally, this kinda demonstrates the point I've been getting at all along: putting rocks in sandwiches is objectively bad, and you'd have a hell of a time convincing me that Sega has done much to the franchise that can be considered to be objectively bad or good. Didn't actually say that now, did I? But if putting words in my mouth helps you make a point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Anyway, I'm done with this thread until I've seen the movie, so feel free to carry out your overly literal objective teardown of this post without further argument from me.
I’m pretty curious as to why you think anything I’ve said about Sega’s handling of things was strictly my opinion alone. You don’t need to take mine or any other Retro member’s word for it; you’re free to personally look up any retrospective about them, professional and otherwise. A good amount of them are pretty uniform in their complaints or disagreements about where they think Sega committed certain blunders and their reasonings as to why they feel that way. Whether it’s how they’re designed their more recent Sonic games, how they’ve promoted some of other legacy IPs, or the steps they took when publishing their consoles before they shifted strictly to third-party publishing. The consensus about Sega’s history exists. You can choose to not agree with what’s being said, but it makes little sense to act like it doesn’t exist or that it does not matter. Hence why I said “if” in my previous reply, but you don’t actually appear to be reading any of my posts, so that’s okay. For someone accusing me of intentionally misreading your posts, the fact that “lol making good products is actually easy peasy” was all you took from my first response says it all, honestly. In turn, I suppose it’s much easier to snark passive-aggressive comments and then leave a thread than to actually engage in a discussion with people you don’t agree with. Enjoy your movie.
This song is actually kind of a bop. This sort of music usually isn't my thing, but I like this a lot. EDIT: Here's the full "fluffy Sonic" clip as seen on Twitter. It's also worth noting that he doesn't have the Pumas in this clip:
Loathe rap, clicked off quite quickly. This specific thing I actually won't put against the film though - music preference is heavily subjective. There are people out there who love rap equally as much as I hate it.
Ya rap's not my genre of choice, but I liked the references in the video at least. And the song was, idk fine? I'm sure someone will like it.
Well, I liked the song but honestly - it would be much better if it was something like that: But the song is still cool, tho'. Better than Gangstar's Paradise at least.
Well anyway... At the start of the week I was off to London for the UK's annual Toy Fair event. Whilst on the train someone contacted me about an apparent Sonic Movie themed bus... Then a second pic was sent my way showing it on the streets of the city. Well... I... Ended up having a rather comical game of cat and mouse with the bus, I'd literally turn a corner, or cross the street and it would either just pull away or come flying around a bend and be off! But... I eventually got some very clear video of it. So... Take a look if you like this sort of thing I guess.
It looks like Paramount's putting a lot of effort into marketing. I honestly don't know what to think of it other than that Paramount clearly thinks this movie is going to be well-received/a hit. I also don't know if I consider that optimism or delusion.
The marketing for this movie might be some of the best marketting in years for a movie which isn't in the blockbuster period or that has Disney money behind it. Some of the stuff I've seen is crazy, in Korea they have entire trains decorated. Stagecoach bus fleet in the UK now also has a Sonic Movie posters on the side of it's fleet. And that doesn't include all the billboards in the US right now.
Honestly, the marketing for the Sonic movie is the most marketing for any Sonic item in ages. I think the last Sonic product that ever got this much of a reach into the public conscious was Sonic Unleashed, arguably the last time Sega allotted a sizable budget for marketing a Sonic game towards general audiences. Even the Sonic Boom launch didn't have as much of a mainstream reach (especially given the lack of advance reviews for the games and invisible promotion for the animated show).
Here’s my little analogy… Sonic is like licorice… Classic Sonic was red licorice, and modern 3D Sonic is black. Almost everyone likes red licorice, it might not be their favorite, but it’s fundamentally palatable to almost everyone. 3D Sonic has always been black licorice, it’s niche. Sure there are better and worse representations, and a select few seem to really enjoy it. But at the end of the day, black licorice just isn’t that appealing to most people. The modern style of gameplay is by its very nature NEVER going to be palatable to most people. They can change the formula, cut it into nibs, cover it with colorful specks, or whip it around in orange ice cream, but even after 20 years there just isn’t much of an appetite for black licorice and there NEVER WILL BE. The result is a candy company that lurches from one incarnation to the next, “…if we can only repackage the black licorice, or change its shape, or make half the bag red licorice, that worked for a while, right?” So of course with limited consumer reach Sega needs to cut corners, use cheaper ingredients, rely on memes about how everyone knows they suck, etc., and then we criticize them for not dedicating the resources they obviously don’t have… because we all want the ecosystem of red licorice, but you can’t achieve that with the constraints and lackluster appeal of black. Apparently there will always be some people that want black licorice, but the cycle will never stop until Sega realizes they have hit a cap and have diminishing returns. And to be clear, I’m not saying, therefore Sonic must become red licorice, that it must return to 2D... What I am saying is that the fundamental flavor needs to change, be it blueberry, or orange, whatever… The corridor, speed-for-the-sake-of-speed sideshow needs to stop being the primary product on offer. It’s a loser strategy and has been since the novelty of it wore off 20 years ago. Sega needs to stop attempting to make a great black licorice and focus on making great candy. TLDR; If we can ever expect Sonic to be better, to have a budget, to get Nintendo level polish, it needs to change at a fundamental level. “People aren’t buying what they’re selling”. To extend this to the movie, we all knew the movie was going to be more black licorice, we just didn’t expect the cultural equivalence of “n***** babies” from the outset.
It is really strange seeing Sonic like, everywhere. Same kind of strange as seeing Pokemon 20 Years Super Bowl commercials, or the marketing for Detective Pikachu. It's odd seeing something I like all over the place Re: the rap song, haven't heard it but Sonic being overly contemporaneous is actually kind of a throwback to the Genesis days. The New Jack Swing in Sonic CD is extremely of the time, etc.. You kind of get a little bit of this in some of the more electronically-based level tunes that use amen breaks and such, but it was way more obvious that they wanted to be "in" with the latest music back when the classic games came out.
