Sonic Mania Plus (Consoles Physical; PC Digital) - Non-Leaks Thread

I bet the phantom ruby in Mania was a modern era phantom ruby prototype that accidentally warped to the mania timeline.

They never really explained those prototype rubys though, idk what those are.

 

Well, Chaos Emeralds do that kind of thing, as seen in Sonic 1, so their master should have that power too. And yes, the jungle could be big enough, and some parts of it be high enough so fire never touched them. The bombardment was widespread, but maybe not perfect. Oh, and remember the place was green again and bombarded again in Knuckles' story, and that water left burning plants behind when it went down after pressing a switch, so there's plenty of weird moments in that jungle.

I'd like to see every single original modern level (as in, only White Park from Sonic 4) reimagined in classic-styled 2D game renditions, even those already in 2D low-res graphics. There's been a ton of good level concepts ruined by level design and mediocre game physics and gimmicks.

 

From my (shit) interpretation, the Japanese term for Classic Sonic used is "Betsu no Sekai" (????), at least that's what Tails and Eggman say in the Japanese game script, which I believe translates more to "Another World".
I feel this is a bit more of an open to interpretation rather than the english "Dimension" phrasing. From my PHD of watching shit anime I've definitely heard terms like "Past World" and "Future World" (with the same ?? = Sekai) thrown about. We need to page Dr. Windii in here for a slightly less trash interpretation than mine though :v:/>

To be fair, Chaotix DIDN'T meet 90% of the Sonic crew until Heroes anyway, even taking into account the original Chaotix game. All except for Knuckles, and we hear Vector give a little shout-out to Knuckles' Punches in the final boss fight. I know their designs/age and personalities were 'soft-rebooted', but I never took that as an outright retcon of the 32X Game.

Still, I get what you mean about keeping the same broad strokes, and your view is probably more in-line with SEGA's regarding the current state of the fucking mess that is the Sonic plot.

 

Just let Taxman do a Chaotix sequel after Mania Plus, to restore the Chaotix name. :v:

 

Restore it to what? There has been one Chaotix game and it was ass, and Heroes, which was even worse. There ain't no great legacy to restore here.

 

I was always fascinated by Chaotix growing up. Given I never had a 32X. It took years before I played it on an emulator because I never had a machine that could sufficiently handle 32X emulation - and when I eventually did I was like "This looks phenomenal. This sounds amazing. But this also plays like shit". Such a strange and fascinating game. Probably best to leave it to the ether of time without ever resurrecting it.

Taxman and Stealth need to be contracted on Mania 2 after this. And given the revelations at SXSW (Mania becoming a franchise now) I'd say an imminent sequel is thankfully inevitable.

 

Chaotix is a very dull game (gameplay and level design) wrapped in a pretty great presentation (level themes, art direction, graphics, music), and I do think it would be a shame if the latter was to go completely to waste. I wouldn't advocate for a sequel or a remaster but I do think that its assets/content could be put to good use in a new game. You could have Newtrogic High Zone/Carnival Island as a bonus island outside the main campaign, and the game's zones were effectively re-purposed into traditional Sonic levels, with the necessary new/reworked level assets to support them.

 

I don't know if you're all talking about the characters or the gameplay, but respectfully, fuck the Chaotix. Personally, I don't want them ruining a good thing now that 2D Sonic is back on track. There's a formula to the success of Sonic 1-3K and Mania, and when you start detracting from it with these radically different ideas the focus gets spread too thin and it loses polish. When you lose polish, you lose consistency. When you lose consistency, you do anything to get back on track. When you do anything to get back on track, Sonic 06 happens. (Feel like a damn DirecTv commercial here). A gross exaggeration, I know. But I know somewhere in that is a speck of truth. Mania 2 should be very similar to the first, but with completely new stages (borrowing gimmicks is fine). We finally have competent developers in charge of 2D Sonic. Let them just play it safe for once.

 

I agree. Chaotix 32X still looks incredibly slick to this day and the soundtrack is great.

Ideally, what I'd like to see is a "Chaotix Remix". Same storyline, characters, levels, enemies, graphics and music, but in the Sonic Mania engine and with brand new level design, new boss behavioiur and a reworked "buddy" mechanic.

I'm just looking at it word by word, but the website says "betsu jigen no sekai" (??????), with "jigen" apparently meaning "dimension". https://jlearn.net/Dictionary/Search?by=jpn&type=s&term=%E6%AC%A1%E5%85%83

Sonic and Tails appear in Chaotix's good ending, but that's a little debatable. But also, Espio should have known the others from Sonic the Fighters.

But the big thing is that they all battled Eggman and Metal Sonic in Chaotix 32X. In Sonic Heroes they don't acknowledge any previous encounters, and Charmy has to ask who Eggman even is.

 

Chaotix, the spiritual successor to S3&K, the LEGENDARY Knuckles-sequel...

 

Sonic Canon = Reboot every 2-3 games

Funny how the talk is back to remixing stuff. I thought having a fully original mania 2 was the goal?

It's like The Force Awakens, Why bother with a retread when I can just re-watch A New Hope?

That said, remixed old levels as a post-game bonus wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

I think most people would argue Mania was the publisher/developers "playing it safe" to be honest; the underlying game structure was directly adapted from Sonic 3&K and most of the zones were reused from past entries. Which I think works perfectly fine for what's literally the first authentic Genesis followup in 23 years, but I do think a sequel will have to bring some new ideas to the table.

That's not to say a Mania sequel should repeat what Sonic Team did and throw the baby out the bathwater (hell no) but I do think that a Mania sequel should also try incorporating some changes to make the formula fresh in addition to having new content. (Though considering the small updates to the formula the Mania development team were able to add anyway, I do trust them with being able to naturally evolve the formula.) Just some basic examples on where to start:

- The easiest / most obvious example would be new player mechanics. Mania's Drop Dash itself is a good example of this. Don't forget, this can also apply to other playable characters (Tails/Knuckles) as well.
- New level design structures, and new level mechanics. Though, this admittedly is a no-brainer to begin with.
- Co-op / partner system. Obviously though, the nature of the game would be to properly flesh it out from how it's been handled in the classic games we've had so far; without going the route of Chaotix or S4E2.
- Exploration / progression structure. Go a step further from multiple routes in the acts, how about multiple routes in the sequence of zones themselves.
- Objective structure. Secondary gameplay goals that either bring variation to or even exist outside the primary "get to the goalpost" structure.
- New shields / powerups to utilize, either in addition to the classic water/fire/bubble shields or as a replacement set.

 

I think a potential Sonic Mania 2 with either entirely original levels or at the very least a greater balance of new levels versus remixed ones is the ultimate endgame here and what everyone wants. Sega do listen to the fans to a certain extent and this would also have been highlighted in reviews so they've probably heard us loud and clear. Taxman and Stealth have been given more and more creative freedom with every project and success they've had (with Mania 1 being a mega-success) so presumably would have more expansive liberty with a theoretical Mania 2.

Studiopolis alone shows they have brilliant ideas for original zones so I'd be hyped and excited to see a Mania 2 with either completely original content or basically just more new levels than we were given before. Only 4 new levels was my main let down with Mania 1 so hopefully this can be remedied in a sequel. As Mania has essentially become it's own sub-franchise now I think we can safely presume it's only a matter of months until Mania 2 is inevitably announced - and it might very well being a completely original game and the true successor to Sonic 3K we've been waiting on.

 

I've wanted this forever. I can imagine an Outrun style structure with a A, B, C, D and E routes with different endings. Junctions can be made at certain events/boss battles with a pass/fail consequences. Examples:

1. beat the first mini boss of Angel Island within a short time frame and the level isn't set on fire
2. Passing all tests and completing levels the fastest get the "A" route, where final level Metallic Madness level is in it's incomplete, still being built, Past incarnation. A "C" route means the player faces the complete Present version, whereas an "E" route gets the established Bad Future version).

If there are any more re-used zones in Mania 2, lets hope they are recreations of obscure 8-bit zones, or the 2 player zones from Sonic 3.

 

that would be interesting, but I'm not sure if I'd want that as that would mean that the team has to account for each different path with level design and art changes meaning that we would likely get less zones (like sonic CD's style if I'm interpreting your idea correctly)

 

It's been a while since I played Chaotix, but I think we only see Knuckles and Espio battling Eggman and Metal in the first level cut-scenes. On the other occasions the player selects the characters, so it could be that they don't represent the actual story.

In Heroes, Espio knew of Eggman. But really, I think Sonic Team leave these things vague so they can change their minds later on.

 

Yeah, that's definitely true regarding the website I'll give ya that.

I'm only going by what's said by the characters in Forces itself though, specifically when Tails first meets Classic Sonic in-game, which doesn't include the 'jigen' part.

Given Charmy's personality, I felt his 'not remembering Eggman' line came across as more of a joke, which works even better if you take the events of Chaotix onboard. Charmy's mind is definitely elsewhere in Heroes...

Regarding character interactions, I definitely wouldn't count a lack of acknowledgement as anything, especially from a silent type like Espio. Unless the game outright says "These two have never met before", I'd say there's not a lot of concrete.
Also keep in mind the Heroes interactions between teams are pretty bare-bones at best. Even Sonic's reaction to Shadow being alive almost makes you wonder if these are the same guys who went through SA2 together.
From Sonic Team's perspective, I don't think they would want to alienate people by referencing a 32X game or an Arcade game, whether it's to acknowledge their existence, or lack of existence.

Also given Team Chaotix and Sonic don't meet until after Metal Sonic appears, I didn't think there was much room for idle chat. Shame they didn't get a regular Team vs cutscene together!

This is all purely my take though. I'm 99% sure Sonic Team DID want to erase Chaotix and reboot the characters. I just feel that Heroes didn't really do enough to close that door if that were the intention.

 

If that were the case then one could say that Tails never directly faced Robotnik by the end of Sonic 2 simply because there's an option to play Sonic alone. All the characters were present at the defeat of Metal Sonic during Chaotix's good ending so I think we can rule that out.

Do Vector and Charmy express not knowing who Eggman is outside of the first boss? If not, then only Charmy questions the name Doctor Eggman and that could even be a (poor) play on the fact that he hadn't seen him since he was called Robotnik. Sonic Adventure 1 and Sonic Generations acknowledge the name change so that's as good of a reason as any to believe Charmy's question to be a joke.

 

When you fight Metal Sonic, it's only with two characters (picked by the player). After he's defeated, it just says "Coooool" and then fades to white before the credits graphic appears. There's not a single story cutscene where all the characters are together. At the start of the game, there's a cutscene featuring Metal Sonic and Eggman, but you can only play as Knuckles and Espio.

The other characters obviously helped out during the adventure, but we don't know for sure if anyone but Knuckles/Espio saw Eggman/Metal.

Sonic alone wouldn't be the the 'true' story option. Sonic & Tails is how the story properly goes. Which is exactly my point about Chaotix.

There's screencaps here. Basically during the first boss, Espio's says "That's the evil genius, Dr Eggman". And Charmy goes "Dr Who?"

I'm pretty sure that Sonic Team did intend them to be new characters in Heroes, but I think they also left it vague so they wouldn't contradict themselves if they changed their mind later.

 

Man, that site seems useful. I never noticed the Eggman posters in the Team Chaotix room before! Now I'm even more convinced Charmy is just being a doofus.

I'm also remembering how certain sonic games would almost 're-introduce' Eggman to characters despite them knowing full well who he is. Case in point being Sonic Adventure: In both Sonic and Tails' scenarios, Eggman feels the need to introduce himself to Sonic and Tails once again.

I wonder if Heroes was trying to attempt a similar thing for new players? Especially being Sonic's first multi-platform outing...