Sonic Mania Plus (Consoles Physical; PC Digital) - Non-Leaks Thread

The Japanese Sonic CD manual described Amy as "optimistic" and "an energetic tomboy" who likes carding reading, fortunes and "mystic things".

The big difference between the Classic and Modern iterations is that Classic Amy is 8 years old and Modern Amy is 12 years old. (For reference, Classic Sonic is 15-16 years old and Modern Sonic is 15 years old.)

So in the "Classic" lore the idea is more that Amy is a plucky little kid with an innocent crush, whereas in the "Modern" lore Amy and Sonic are closer to being peers.

Yeah, Charmy's infinite flight would break the game. They'd have to limit it somehow, but ideally without undermining the premise that he's a bee. Charmy is actually one of the characters I most want to be playable in a Mania sequel - Metallic Madness Zone's shrink ray demonstrated how controlling a miniature character can add a dash of variety to the gameplay, and it would be easy to add alternate paths this way.

 

That's the approach that should be taken with Classic Amy. It kinda saddens me to see that the general opinion of her around here is so low, but perhaps it can't be helped. Her biggest role in the classic era was being kidnapped in Sonic CD and that was it. I honestly didn't care for Classic Amy until her appearance in the Sonic Mega Drive comics. Those comics made her more than just a damsel in distress, and it would be nice to see more of that whether it's in Sonic Mania or something else.

 

Yeah this is pretty much a big ass cash grab at the end of the day. You would think a new level or two would also be the obvious thing to do to add content and balance out the game a little more. Encore mode has to have something substantial to it. If there aren't some other QoL things like stage transitions and the final boss I'm not going to give it a free pass. Mighty and Ray though are fanwanky enough for me to overlook a lot though.

 

I mean... We're living in an age where most $60 fighting games charge $6-$8 per character and $4 per stage. For a $20 game, I think that a reasoable price for two new characters and extra/enhanced modes is $5 ($10 at most, but I think that price is pretty unlikely).

 

I wouldn't say that comparison is necessarily valid; just because people are doing REALLY shitty things NOW with how they sell games doesnt excuse a "lite" variant just because it's "not as bad." That's essentially how every negative process, ever, goes to ridiculous lengths of pushing the envelope, i.e. how people are "ok" with microtransactions because "welp they aint lootboxes." If SEGA did better in the past, they can do better now.

You can apply this logic to gameplay too. I personally find Gens to be a game that aged pretty poorly, but a lot of people--myself included--loved it when it released, and some still do. Honestly, I think that's because of how shit the games before it were. I feel even more strongly about Colors in this regard; its very hard for me to play that game again and genuinely enjoy it because a lot of the charm of "oh wow a GOOD one this time!!" has eroded and the filler nonsense has gotten to me, showing a game devoid of real substance and relying on spectacle and gimmicks (not unlike most sonic games to begin with...), to which I honestly empathize with Jim Sterling a lot more about his 4.5 assertion on the game. I certainly wouldn't deem it THAT poor, but a closer look just reveals that the game is more average than good... PERSONALLY anyway.

A major part of that is because my expectations plummeted so low to "i'll take anything good at this point." I bring this up because I think it's important not to get complacent with tactics SEGA's doing even if they're improving; Mania still has Denuvo, further games are likely going to include it even if it just doesn't work, Mania 2 whenever it comes out will probably have Denuvo, and honestly I don't see us NOT getting a stage list that's 2/3's remixed old stages again unless people are vocal about that not being what we want. If we end up having to re-buy Mania WHOLESALE or even buy it half price for a small collection of updates, I don't think that's something that should be deemed 100% acceptable if people actually have a problem with it (I certainly would). Higher price points warrent higher amount of content.


Basically be more true to yourself about what you want outta all this, or you're probably gonna say "nah this is fine" and you'll regret it :specialed:

 

I'm going to have to stop you right there because you're essentially saying that paying any amount for newly developed content is a bad thing. Few games out there offer free substantial DLC and sometimes it's only because the game was released half-finished (Splatoon, Street Fighter 5) That shouldn't automatically demonize other games that want to charge for it especially if the price is reasonable. That was the point of my statement.

....I don't get this logic. I'll ask you what I was going to ask Hez before Jason beat me to the punch.

How is paying $50 for one character and 6 stages WAY better than paying just $5 ($10 at most) for two extra characters and updated/new game modes?

 

Really hope we can get some confirmation on whether Mania Plus will have some QoL updates added to it or not. It would really help smoothen out some of the rough edges in the vanilla release and could also help address some of the problems non-veteran Sonic players / reviewers had with the game.

Here are my major recommendations, just going off the top of my head:
- One of Mania's biggest complaints was keeping the design choice of the time limit killing players after 10 minutes. The levels are a lot larger in size compared to the early Genesis titles, and a fair amount of the bosses also require a lot of waiting; so the time limit mechanic is more visibly overbearing. I've seen some people call for the time limit to be removed outright, but I think the better option would modify the time limit so exceeding 10 minutes results in the loss of time bonuses (3D Flickies Island did this--"TIME TAKEN: TOO LONG"). While not necessary at all, I think some neat subtle changes could also be applied in accordance to this (I recall a Retro member suggesting the idea of replacing the animal capsules for Act 2 completion with the usual goalposts, which I really like).
- The biggest QoL recommendation that most have mentioned are level transitions. It's pretty inconsistent how some levels have transitions to the next level while others lack any. Giving all of the levels proper transitions would help a lot.
- On the topic of level transitions, I also wouldn't be too opposed to some added cutscenes that better explain/develop the story. Especially Little Planet and the general endgame of the plot.
- More freedom in regards to the use of Sonic's secondary mechanics. Being able to use the insta-shield and Super Peel-Out is cool, but only being able to use it in No Save mode is something of a bummer. There have also been hacks that show all three of Sonic's abilities (drop dash/insta-shield/super peel-out) all working in unison without much trouble, so an option to either toggle each of them on/off would also be nice.
- Having some more display options for 2P multiplayer, so you're not limited to the stretched-screen option of Sonic 2. A 2P screen that has proper aspect ratios for both players (at the tradeoff of centered smaller screens surrounded by black bars a la Sonic 3 MP) would be the ideal alternative IMO.
- More bugfixes that catches those that weren't caught in the first patch. Again, an obvious recommendation that goes without saying, so yeah.

 

Back in the 2D days story was secondary. Amy being a cut out isn't a big deal because all characters were just standard cutouts. In the context of CD in particular Sonic was the cool mascot with a 'tude. Eggman was the evil scientist. Mecha was the evil twin. Amy was the girlfriend that Sonic had to be a bad enough dude to rescue. None of the territory covered is exactly deep. With this in mind I would love to see a playable Amy in Mania, but again my issue is that the Mighty and Ray DLC sounds like it could very well wind up being a halfassed job and not really add anything to the game, since it is an outsourced job it may even detract from the experience. No reason to ask for more characters until I'm sure I even like what they did add.

 

You're far from the only one to make this mistake. SEGA were so unclear about this during the presentation and subsequent press release that they actually had to send out a second release to clarify that all of the bonus content is also available as paid DLC. You can buy Mania Plus as a physical game, or purchase the Plus upgrade as DLC if you already bought the game digitally. They just haven't provided a price yet.

 

Shit, we're still on the Amy thing? Given the situation and how this is f-in Sonic Retro, can't someone just insert her into Mania? Yes it would take a shit ton of time but so did shoving her into the other three games.

And I'm against her personality being from Sonic Adventure or any of the "character development". Her simple personality of having a crush on Sonic and following him around works just fine when not taken to the absurd levels seen in later games. Same goes for all of the classic cast in that they're fairly straight forward.

 

If Sonic Heroes was ONLY team Sonic... or maybe just remove Team Rose, I'd like it about 30x more.

That said can we stop bitching about Amy's absence? The game gains/loses nothing with or without Amy... personally Sonic Mania was already a classic as it was... it will only be better w/ DLC now.

 

I'm personally super happy with Mighty and Ray. Seeing these guys return is just so awesome, and interests me way more than Amy would. But back in 2016, they had to explain why Amy wasn't in the game after people really wanted to see her. It just seems like a misstep to overlook her, and announce two other characters with absolutely no gameplay footage.

 

This thread has made me hate classic Amy.

 

Well it's not like they're adding a boat load of new content. Hell Mighty and Ray basically are the new content. Why show their hand right off the bat? It's different than showing off Sonic, Tails, and knuckles as those 3 were just expected. These 2 have some mystery to them, why spoil it immediately.

 

I would like a little tease at least, a little sprite doing something... More than just concept art at least.

For example, It's hard to be exited with Ray, when the guy never had any kind of gameplay in 2D without being on a isometric prespective.
At this point, all can we feel it's a bit of hot air.

 

I'm just grateful we're getting more Mania content. Blasphemous, I know. :v:

 

ITT pages of arguing about the moveset of a character who is not in the game.
Never change, Retro.

Glad to see I was right about Project Plus, insofar as it being some additional content motivated by SEGA realising just how good an idea a physical release would be, and understanding that a new edition of the game would drum up a lot more interest and publicity. Wasn't expecting Ray and Mighty at all, of course, and I have no idea what Encore Mode will bring. Love the extra physical stuff too - I'll definitely be picking up a copy for Switch, despite not owning a Switch yet...

Project Plus wishlist that I meant to type up ages ago (and for the record, I don't think even half of these are actually going to happen) though I'm sure I'll remember some more things later:
- Zone transitions between every zone, for every character
- In-game plot clarification, so it feels more like S3&K
- Redesigned Egg Reverie that utiliises the unused pinch mode music
- Bigger TMZ climax with actual Phantom Heavy boss fights
- At least one Mighty and Ray exclusive act (maybe an alternate Hydrocity 2?)
- Add Mystic Cave and two new zones to bring the total to a slightly more balanced 6 + 9.
- Re-drawn Green Hill 1 clouds (yes, seriously, I'm still on this)
- Make it so you can't fall off the plane in the Sky Chase section
- A vastly expanded train section in Mirage Saloon 1 ST, and added to Time Attack.
- Actual bonus stages, even if just the S3&K ones.
- Introduce Blue Sphere stages that utilise the green and pink spheres
- Add more segments to the randomised Blue Sphere modes so they take a little longer to get repetitive
- A second set of Dimension Heist stages (maybe even Hyper forms), and Dimension Heist time attack
- Some kind of endless mode for Dimension Heist with randomly generated tracks ala Blue Sphere
- Adding more character pairings (including & Knuckles) and Sonic's alternate moves to save games
- Modify Studiopolis 1 boss to give it substance to match the spectacle
- Modify Flying Battery 2 boss to make it as fun in practice as it is in theory
- SOME kind of visual indication of when you can start hitting Metal Sonic
- Tweak the Mean Bean "physics" (for lack of a better word) and fix the bugs so it feels exactly like Genesis Puyo Puyo
- Make the collision detection in Chemical Plant's moving block section more like the original, and make it so you can't get immediately crushed from Going Fast in the path leading to it
- If SEGA Europe could get the dicks out of their mouths and remove the Denuvo in the PC version, that would be great too

Not really wishlistable, but does it bother anyone else that one hit in Studiopolis 1 or Hydrocity 2's 'running' bosses and you lose all your rings, the walls in Flying Battery 2's will catch some of them sometimes, and the wall in Stardust Speedway 2 catches them all, always?

Also something I meant to type up ages ago, brief thoughts on each level (not including boss fights, which are very hit and miss):
GHZ1: Awesome first level. The original layouts are so iconic, great to see them again but with the new smooth engine.
GHZ2: One of the most enjoyable levels to explore, fitting since GHZ3 was my favourite Sonic 1 level.
CPZ1: Bringing back the infamous difficulty spike unchanged was a terrible idea. Otherwise, the original Chemical Plant done right.
CPZ2: Could stand to be a little more non-linear but incredibly fun regardless.
SPZ1: Actual. Goddamn. Masterpiece. Especially the music.
SPZ2: Not outstanding but still fun all the same.
FBZ1: Way too similar to the original. One of the few levels I was disappointed in.
FBZ2: Awesome level, loved the Wing Fortress hybrid, weather effects need to see a return someday.
PGZ1/2: Both acts feel so different and creative that they deserved to be two separate zones. The unique gimmicks feel underutilised as a result.
SSZ1: The music for this one is probably my favourite track in the game, and the level's great to match.
SSZ2: While I was disappointed that they chose Present rather than Good Future, it's Stardust Speedway done right and I can't argue with that.
HCZ1: Would've liked to see more Tidal Tempest references, and the bubble gimmick was just the worst thing. Okay otherwise.
HCZ2: Way too close to the original after the first minute or so. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing this one mostly re-done.
MSZ1ST: I don't mind the Sky Chase section, but the train is far too short.
MSZ1K: One of the best levels the game has to offer.
MSZ2: A bit on the short side, but incredibly fun. Kind of like Collision Chaos done right.
OOZ1/2: As with the original zone, the level design of both acts feels too same-y, on top of being same-y with regard to the original. Smoke gimmick and submarines are fun though.
LRZ1: Would've liked an original layout, but all the changes (and the new background) are fantastic.
LRZ2: As with act one, too similar to the original, though the music and Quartz Quadrant references warmed my heart.
MMZ1/2: Both absolutely fantastic levels. Wish we could've heard a US Bad Future remix though.
TMZ1/2: I really don't get the hate some people have for these levels. They're both excellent for a final zone.

With regard to all the minor bugs and oddities that will hopefully be fixed with the new version, here's the latest additions to my ongoing playlist:
- Invisible wall in Mirage Saloon 2
- Ziplines don't respond to momentum if they're still moving
- A really weird spot of collision detection in Stardust Speedway 2
- I understand why this happens but it's annoying
- A bit of wall in Green Hill 2 that lacks solidity
- The Stardust Speedway boosters don't always send you the right way, unlike in CD
- I don't know how this happened but I couldn't move

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm looking forward to finding out exactly how these two will play and seeing what "Encore Mode" is all about. But it's not much to latch on to yet. The game is half a year old at this point, so I think that the time for teasing is over. It's just too little.

 

This is what intrigues me the most. The factsheet describes it as "A new mode that adds a fresh look to familiar locations while challenging new and veteran players alike". Definitely implies that it will actually change the difficulty of the levels, which is cool - I'm wondering if it'll be something like the challenges on Generations, where they used the same level layouts but custom object layouts.

 

True, but we have another half a year before we get the game (well, they did say "Summer 2018" so that could mean early Summer, and if the Steam branch is anything to go by they've already worked on this for a bit, so maybe it'll be like June or July. Maybe it'll be Sonic's birthday? Who knows). I guess they can show a bit of Mighty and Ray and Encore mode for some stages, and a little bit of 4 player mode (that's not really spoilery, that's just a feature). I just don't want them spoiling the whole package prior to launch as it's not that much when you think about it.

They did their reveals pretty well with Mania originally, I have faith they'll do fine with this one.