I doubt Eggman could see any of the crazy shit Infinite did. The scene where Sonic was getting beat up was probably just Sonic flailing around and Tails yelling at his tablet. This is the version of the story I choose to believe.
The lengths of the Phantom Ruby are.. implausible and inconsistent. It seems to have an area-of-effect or contact effect that's also temporary, unless the Avatar's and Sonic's fights with Infinite only have him using the Ruby temporarily when they get afflicted. Yet they can create a seemingly sentient and physical Zavok up in goddamn space to keep Sonic in check while Infinite's running around wrecking things on Earth. Are the constructs able to fully be independent in a matter of speaking, or what? Like with many things, the game doesn't bother explaining any sort of 'rules' or 'logic' and just does what it thinks is cool, so just like Sonic '06 and its time travel, "it just works."
Maybe we'll get to see a mod of the game where all models of the enemy Phantoms are removed and dub it "Eggman vision." My question is: Is what the Phantom Ruby shows to people under its power determined by Infinite, Eggman, or the people seeing it? Because Infinite has no reason to know who Zavok or Chaos are. So either Eggman briefed him on these enemies or the Phantom Ruby just shows people under its power what they fear or some such thing. But THAT doesn't work either, because how would all of these characters be seeing the exact same enemies when THEY have never met them either? The Phantom Ruby is cool in concept but the writing just makes the whole thing an utter mess.
I just think of it like Dragon Ball's split timeline theory of time travel: In Dragon Ball, Future Trunks comes from the original timeline. In Sonic, Modern Sonic's is the original timeline. The past is eventually altered by someone in the present, creating a new branching, stable, alternate timeline. In Dragon Ball's Androids/Cell Saga, Trunks creates the new timeline where the Majin Buu Saga eventually happens. In Sonic Generations, the Time Eater creates the new timeline where Mania eventually happens. Now, since they are able to stably coexist, both of these new timelines can interact with their divergent sibling timelines. In Dragon Ball, Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan continue to be able to interact with Future Trunks (as seen in Dragon Ball Super). In Sonic, Classic Sonic continues to be able to interact with Modern Sonic (as seen in Sonic Forces). This means that Classic Sonic (from Generations, Mania, and Forces) is both from the past and another dimension: an alternate past. Sonic 4 represents what happens after 3K from Modern Sonic's history, and Mania represents what happens after 3K from this new Generations-experienced Classic Sonic. This was a genius marketing decision, because it allows Sonic Team to move forward on two fronts. And it's rather obvious given the repeated revelation that the performance of Mania and Forces are going to help determine the road going forward (and Mania's apparent domination on that front), and Sonic literally saying "I'm sure we'll see him again" at the end of Forces, that we're only going to continue seeing more of both of them, and more of both of them interacting.
So after reading this topic a bit I figured I'd pick this game up on sale or when it's going for less than the price of a regular game. I was out of town visiting family and wandered into Gamestop, the game was less than a regular game, which based on reactions here seems to be its normal price. This... definitely feels like a budget title. I'm laughing out loud almost every single story scene. Cringe-worthy story that takes itself way too seriously for a game about a blue hedgehog? Check. Controls that are just off enough to be annoying? Check. Game design decisions that seem to focus on OC the [species], but the game doesn't even have you play as them consistently? Check. Level design that doesn't emphasize your characters' abilities but actually seems to actively work against them? Check. I want to say that I'm having fun playing this game despite the flaws, but it's just... meh. It's not actively bad, but it's also not very good. I'll keep pushing through, but as I only have two beers left and the liquor stores are long closed I don't know if I'll make it through this game tonight. I also picked up that Ori and the Blind Forest game for cheap, I hear it's supposed to be pretty good? When I get tired of this Sonic Forces game I may switch to that instead.
The "Split Timeline" theory doesn't work. Mania has Super Emeralds. Super Emeralds aren't canon in the main dimension. The world is fundamentally different. I think the "Classic Sonic" we see in Generations was actually from the Classic dimension the whole time. I prefer this version because... A) it doesn't make sense for the world to change just because of a timeline split, and... B) the Classic dimension existing completely separately gives the Mania team full creative control without having to worry about past games that weren't classic-era.
This is under the assumption that the Mania team are coming back which may not be the case. Really, it seems like an excuse to keep bringing back Classic Sonic in modern games. BTW, anyone heard from Taxman? I know Stealth has moved on but has anyone heard from Taxman?
This might have an answer actually. I think the Phantom Ruby creates visions based on desire or "will". In the prequel comic, when Eggman first touches it, he sees his dream world. Then, he wishes he had a whole army of robots to take on squad jackal, then he suddenly does. When infinite touches it he sees a desolated world, which prompts Eggman to recruit him, as they both want the "same thing". Infinite also hand waves some shit about only his power of will could activate it in the game. And his desire according to episode Shadow is be stronger. That doesn't explain the fucking clones (over half of which Infinite's never met before). Since they're Sonic's "strongest" rivals, maybe that's why Infinite willed them up when he fought Sonic directly. I mean...that's all I got.
Maybe we just all need to admit that the story is a bunch of contrived trash, and not waste our time at trying to rationalize it. Plus let's just not mention Sonic 4 and try to place it in any timelines. In the world that I choose to live in, Sonic 4 simply does not exist. Once I realized that this game wasn't even consistent on the Phantom Ruby's powers, I was done. The Phantom Ruby has time/space properties in Mania but now it's an illusion master machine? Nah. Sonic Team is seriously incompetent of designing Sonic Games. I'd rather go back to the Sonic Adventure era. Those games were flawed, but they just seem a whole lot better in comparison to now. Hell Sonic Adventure 2 had a better story with all of the potholes, in comparison to Forces, and superior level design too.
Only problem there is that completely ignores Forces confirming Classic Sonic is definitely the same one from Generations, i.e up until that point - a younger Modern Sonic. Putting that aside, Isn't it easier to just say the Classic Timeline is one where Sonic collected the Chaos Emeralds prior to Mushroom Hill, and as a result powered them up when they returned to Hidden Palace, whereas Modern Sonic's timeline is one where he didn't collect the Emeralds until towards the end of the game, thus never letting them achieve their 'Super' status? (I mean if Zelda can have a new timeline based on whether OoT Link died against the final boss or not.. :v: ) Besides, I think you're getting a bit too hung up on gameplay words/terms here. The word 'Super Emeralds' was always a gameplay only thing - in story they were always still just Chaos Emeralds (albeit, juiced up ones). The way it plays out (to me) is this - In S3K, the Chaos Emeralds returned to Hidden Palace and returned to their original diamond form. S3K calls these 'Super Emeralds' just to let the player know you're not collecting the same old Chaos Emeralds of Sonic 3 again, but they're still ultimately Chaos Emeralds, and get referred to as such in lore outside of S3K's special stage text. Next time we see Chaos Emeralds in either continuing main game (Mania or Adventure), they're now the Diamond shape as a result of S3K. Sonic Adventure's Echidna flashback cutscenes also show the Emeralds as being giant 'Super' size around the Master Emerald shrine, so it's clear that this is a thing in both timelines, and we know that Emeralds get fukken huge when they're at Master Emerald shrines - again backing up S3K's events. Things like Hyper Sonic, Super Knuckles/Tails always came across as 'what if' bonuses to me that were super cool, but much like the Modern games and even in Mania's story, Super Sonic is the only one that gets an acknowledgement.
Thanks for the tip regarding the drop dash with regards to that video I posted. I didn't use it the first time I got through that part, so I didn't think about using it in the later attempts. I actually mainly use it more as an attack to safely get through enemies than as a speed tactic. As pointed out on the Awkward Sonic Photos tumblr: Spoiler
I'll actually give them that one as it seems in character. Eggman kept Sonic alive at first to gloat because he's a jackass, but once he caught wind of the group trying to save Sonic he decided it'd be best just to kill him now. He was too slow though and Sonic escaped. Once Sonic did he was in no nonsense mode as now his plan had a chance of failing again, so he just wants him dead. Also speaking of that scene, the one right before it (post infinite 1) uses a trope I despise. You beat the boss then the cutscene directly after shows said boss kicking your ass. So wtf was the point? Hell even SA1 handled those scenarios better, giving slightly different scenes to the character who won the fight.
to be fair, SA1 handled nearly every shared element between these games better :v: even the cutscenes have more interesting camera work, writing, and choreography if you discount the poor animations
So I finished the game several hours ago. It was underwhelming. Maybe I was just worn out on the bad gameplay, but instead of a triumphant feeling it was more like "Welp I guess that's done. What next?" I guess I can re-create the avatar character as other species now and complete the missions to get a gold medal with each species of avatar-character? I mean I won't, but the game does present the option as a path to go after clearing the game. The SOS missions are a thing as well, but after doing two of them I'm already bored of the concept. This wasn't the worst thing I've ever spent $40 on, but it's definitely not a game I'd recommend.
Speaking of cutscenes, do all the versions drop down to 30fps for cinematics? I have trouble believing the PS4 Pro can't render a real-time cutscene in 60fps that's not really too far above last-gen visuals, especially considering the amount of stuff going on in-game most of the time. Creative/'cinematic experience' decision from the devs maybe? Sonic Adventure DX was also guilty of this I remember.
If Hyper Knuckles is just a "what if" bonus, then that means Knuckles' good ending in s3&k is not canon.
How does Hyper Knuckles affect his good ending? He defeats Mecha, Sonic rescues him and the emerald, the island regains its altitude and he strikes a pose at the end. Hyper Knuckles never comes into play. He has the same ending with just the Chaos Emerald where he's not even transformed at the end (just in case someone says he needed to be Super/Knuckles to strike a pose in space.) Sir_mihael is right, sometimes we get to hung up on gameplay words/terms stuff.
