I have have nothing against peoples that dislike this game. As I said in my post, I think this place can have some very interesting arguments. The discussions about hidden springs or momentum in slopes are the kind of shit I enjoy (even though I don't participate in them that much) But what pissed was ApocalypticSalad's attitude, I just feel insulted because apparently this game is bad and I just don't know any better. As for the game, I just think the level design look fun and competent. It's not classic sonic, yes, but it look fun, that's all really. There's platforms. You jump betwen them. It's fast-pasted. There's cool music and aesthetics. Not my dream Sonic game but this look pretty damn good. Probably going to be my favorite boost game, too.
If anything, most people here are showing a lot of restraint and going out of their way to respond constructively to others. S0LV0's post is a great example. It just sounds like you're uncomfortable with the negativity constantly surrounding this game? Well, that negativity is pretty justified. Don't know what to tell you other than that you shouldn't be taking it personally. You may want to just avoid this thread since, after all the footage and coverage so far, the discussion is unlikely to become that much more positive. Also understand that your post feels like it's not considering those types that pop in every so often to tell the people that are dismayed about this game that they're out of touch, overreacting, or are just wrong (with precious little to back any of that up). Nah, those are the rude posts right there.
yeah, this part upset me so much that I spent my car ride to class thinking about how I'd improve on this idea and I came up with a few things! - Badniks. Stop using the damn Egg Pawns, give each level some unique flavor! For this level I thought they'd have some stuff like Coconuts dressed up in Casino security gear (tuxedo, glasses). Could have a walkie talkie to call in other guys to throw stuff if you take an excessive amount of time to kill him. The Casino Night crab dudes should've been here wearing leafy camo but still inching along slowly and ineffectively, would've been really cute. - Most ofo all, some jungle themed casino games! Slots in the trunk of a giant tree with a fruit motif, why not roulette with a bunch of gambling addicted jungle-y badniks? There's so much you can do with this idea that makes it fun and interesting and yet this level does none of that. It at least (Sonic) FORCED me to think of something better, but....man!
This new zone looks pretty bad, and yet it's the best one we've seen so far. The music is ok even if I think Ohtani isn't at its best with 16bit knockoffs. The physics, as I pointed out when the GHZ footage came out, are completely broken/inexistent just like in Sonic Lost World. The level design, is still Sonic 4 tier, even with this being a zone that appears later on in the game, meaning that the "it's just the first stage come on" excuse can't be applied anymore (not that it had any significance before). It's a mess to look at and I have no idea how they could screw up another Sonic game like this. They promised to better themselves and they aren't delivering. I'm skipping this game.
God... the more I examine this, the more I wonder how anyone could look at some of the design decisions in this stage and think to themselves, "This is good enough, ship it". I mean... the spin dash makes nearly all of these speed boosters redundant. Not that redundant speed boosters is a new problem, but this honestly feels like it's at its worst yet. And the weird Sonic 1-style speed cap they appear to have implemented makes them even more jarring. And those fucking springs, ugh. I'm still excited for this game, a lot of the elements seem like exactly what I want out of a Sonic game, but dear sweet lord, I'm starting to agree with the sentiment that the current Sonic Team needs to be axed entirely. The art is still great. The music is still great. The story is looking promising. But the gameplay design makes me want to fucking throw up.
"Strength doesn't just come from numbers!" And then there were so many of them. I can't. I can't guys.
I don't think this grab has been posted here, but - The player then jumps a split second later, but we saw it Sonic Team! We saw it!
I understand that, and I'm sorry for it, but I think that attitude stems from, well, this: People are so sick of the blind defenders that they've gone into attack mode. I've seen it on Fire Emblem boards, too. Long-time fans are constantly shitting on people who started with Awakening, saying "Casuals are ruining my precious franchise" and shit like that. Eventually some of those newbies got tired of it and started to fight back, calling the long-timers cranky old bastards who just like to whine about games they don't like selling better than the ones that do. Even though I think this game looks like garbage, I won't insult you for giving it a shot. I hate being told how to spend my money (that's why I never cared for "console wars"), so I can respect that. But I will say, I'm beginning to wonder if this seeming lack of effort is actually a rebellion on Sonic Team's part. That maybe they're so bored of making Sonic games that they're trying to force (no pun intended) Sega to let them do something else.
Kinda cute how they try to imitate the Mania animations given how this Sonic is supposed to be Mania Sonic. He's a bit sluggish in this dimension and probably ill, but at least he can drop dash and twirl off of springs :v:
So I just found this video that hasn't been posted here and man, I clicked on it because I was intrigued and confused by the title, but watching it blew my mind. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oacfaIyPtYk[/media] If you can't watch it, it basically presents the theory that the reason the stages are designed the way they are is because Rings have become a currency to buy items for the OC's customization, which means that the level design turns into "supershort levels with tons of automation and linear paths except for one or two secret rooms that just have a shit ton of Rings and like 0 hazards or threatening enemies" and the focus becomes more into "get as many rings as fast as you can", he also backs this up a lot with more info we have obtained from footage of the game. And thinking about it that way...Casino Forest (and other stages)'s sudden lack of hazards and enemies and RING ORGASMS suddenly make a lot more sense. If you think about it that way, then the OC is literally the thing that's dragging this game down, and he's not even fun to play as going by the Stadium article and general opinions on his gameplay. I don't know guys what do you think? To me it makes a lot of sense, and it even explains why you don't lose all of your Rings when you get hit and why the Hedgehog being able to pick up his Rings after being hit is such a big deal and a unique character trait. ...Guys I get it now! This is clearly a remake of Sonic Chaos in 2.5D and with the Boost!
The one shown looks more like Sonic's backwards balance animation from Mania than the frontward facing one from Sonic 1, which was in Generations. And Classic didn't do the Sonic CD spring animation in Generations but he does it here, like Mania Sonic.
I think one of my main gripes so far is not necessarily the gameplay itself, (although it does leave a lot to desired) but rather the marketing for the game. Like so far for however much classic sonic footage we have seen they have literally shown off 95% or all of whatever level. Which leaves little for me to actually look forward to playing come time when the game launches and I play through these stages. Obviously whatever's shown off is subject to change but just the fact that they are showing off full stages in these trailers makes me sort of disappointed.
Except it's not negativity and criticism that's the problem, it's shit like or or This isn't negativity toward the game, it's not criticism, it's just being an asshole. How am I not supposed to take "if you're buying this game, you're not doing it because you understand good design" any way other than personally? I'm not just buying this game because it has Sonic in it, and I'm not ignoring other people's problems with the game, but somehow reacting poorly to people trying to tell me how I feel makes me the problem? Again, it's not even about the game anymore. I'm not a fan of telling everyone who doesn't like the game that they're out of touch, either. You'll notice that's why I haven't done that. I can't control others. You'll find that the people who like Forces aren't any more a hivemind than the people that don't.
I feel it's worth clarifying that I do believe there are people here who have gotten a bit too abrasive with their negative impressions as well. I don't fully believe we'd be in a position where this game exists if there weren't a demographic of fans proven to enjoy such things. I hardly think that justifies every or even many decisions SEGA and Sonic Team have made, but on some base level these games are appealing to people for a reason. Hell, I'm quite fond of the boost formula and I've seen the people on this board who absolutely cannot stand it, so I know what that's like. I think everyone needs to mind agreeing to disagree, whether it be from the "you guys are just old and cynical" side or the "you guys just have no standards" one.
I like the Boost formula and loved Generations, I just want to see more of that and less of what we're seeing. And I'd imagine fans of that genre would like to see more of that as well. I mean do they like the automation and the band aid approaches to hiding flaws? I feel like this game is Generation's version of Sonic 4. Ya it works but compared to what it's based off of it's kinda bleh. And yet there are probably some people out there that prefer Sonic 4 to Sonic 1 - 3K and Mania, just as I'm sure some will prefer Forces to Generations. I don't get why, but I guess it doesn't really matter. Some people like Sonic 06 unironically and I like Sonic R and Chaotix and those games are pretty bleh too (Granted I mostly enjoy playing Sonic R while I'm drinking). People are complicated :v:
I'm strongly against the idea that we should tolerate something just because somebody, or lots of people, might like it. Some people genuinely like the angst of Shadow, convoluted story of Sonic 06 and Werehog levels in Unleashed, but I wouldn't ever want to see Sonic games focused around those aspects of the franchise if they suddenly had the popularity of the Boost. You know, because they suck. On the same line, I don't want to see mediocre, uninspired, bored games like Forces ever come out again. I'm someone who actually really liked Generations, and even I think this game looks like garbage. If anyone actually thinks this game looks good, especially compared to Mania which just came out, they have absolutely no standards. Sonic Mania has set a new standard for Sonic going forward. We don't need mediocrity like Forces, we don't even need another good redo of Generations, because compared to Mania, the faults of Generations are blindingly clear. If that offends some people then so be it. The future of Sonic lies in the balance here. I'd recommend SEGA removes Sonic Team from Sonic because they cannot be trusted to make anything better than mediocrity, puts them to work on a new project, offers permanent contracts to everyone in the Mania team, and as those people as development heads (with producers to help guide them), hires a new team (with new people obviously) that actually has passion and talent. And while this would be a serious shake up and would offend some 'modern fans', I think it's absolutely necessary.
