Bruh, most of us oldbies here are pushing 30, not 20. God forbid we call Sega out on their shit when most of us were actually alive when Sonic games were still quality.
M8y i aint down with blind defense or blind hatred. I know that they're all "this is how you do this and this and" so i just ignore them. I'd love to see more damn worlds past "name changing zone" and mecha green hill. And when the hell did say it being playable was praise? That was just me stating that it is playable. The over meh design doesn't bug me. What i managed to get my hands on @ E3 wasn't "Technical Garbage" but i guess since im only 18 and a casual fan my words are garbage Recall earlier this year when they "started" releasing gameplay footage we saw some of the avatar, classics full stage and odd music, along with a confirmation of the boost being back. But after gamescom the only major thing episode shadow which showed off his lightspeed dash and stage gimmick of infinite being an asshole. TRUTH WARNING:I defend this game on every point because i am TERRIFIED that the games i grew up with might get replaced games out of my comfort zone. Sure mania was fun but i like the rush formula so much more. With the rumour that modern sonic might get canned after the glowing critical success of mania. It was the same for you guys during 1998-2011 right? Having classic sonicdisappear and be replaced with this new green eyed teenage(?) sonic that talks! My mask is off now. Alsogrowingupwithagameautomaticallyassignsqualityimeanlookatdkcitgotpraisedforwowfactordespitethatbeingnostalgiahellsonicmaniaweaponizesthewowfactorbutheyitwasasolidganeandthemusic(whilenotmichealjackson)wasstillprettycatchy Spacing is for triangles im a pure trapezoid! (That doesn't even sound remotely cool) I've derailed this thread long enough. I'll wait for the next news drop yeah?
Let me put it this way: I'm probably one of the biggest fans of the Unleashed/Colours/Generations trilogy on the forum. I love those games over many of the classic games. Sonic Forces is taking the worst aspects of those games and emphasising them; rather than focusing on racing platforming (where the games truly shine), it's mostly generic platforming; rather than having brand new levels, it's mostly recycled levels; rather than varying level design, it's copy/pasted sections of level design; rather than one great gameplay style, it's three mediocre gameplay styles; rather than increasing movement freedom, it's heavily scripted at all times; rather than the great high-quality music we saw in Colours, we have the return of the duck synth. Forces is not the successor to the Unleashed style. It's a bastardisation, much as Sonic 4 was to Classic Sonic. Sure, it'll probably be enjoyable enough, but it won't be good. I want the good games back. Mania is at least good (although it has many problems of its own).
Yeah there are a couple videos that have the ps4 and switch compared. Though only the beginning would be a proper comparison without having to edit the video https://youtu.be/KZZrQDfXnyM here ya go
They've gone too far with Modern Sonic to just get rid of him, so don't worry, I don't see him getting killed off. I do potentially see some internal restructuring over at Sonic Team and a rebuilding of Modern Sonic's gameplay... again. Classic Sonic might get some more of the spot light though. Difference with the two though is that Classic Sonic at this point has been proven to work, it has a formula that helped make the series successful and properly going back to it will always be welcome. 3D Sonic has never had that. The closest it had was either the Adventure series or the Boost formula, and this game is showing some cracks in the latter formula with it's level design being very boring and automated. If they can figure out a way to make the levels fun while keeping the formula, then great, but otherwise it's just not good for anyone.
They've had fun levels before. Jungle Joyride is possibly the greatest 3D level ever made. Them being shit at level design now doesn't mean the formula's broken, it means they're shit at level design now.
Is it weird that I'm currently watching unleashed gameplay of all daytime stages, just happen to be watching jungle joyride as you say that? I'm binging them to see if the game that introduced it was iffy. But so far it looks amazingly well implemented. The next stop is colors to re-determine if it had good levels or not.
^ Unleashed was a great start to the boost gameplay, it was just brought down by strange RPG esq elements, the Werehog, medal collecting, and similar forms of padding and fluff. Also while beautiful it might have been trying a bit too hard for it's time, causing the game to chug. Praise the Unleashed project for Generations PC though, all the fun with none of the fluff :v: Ya true there have been some good examples. Jungle Joyride, Seaside Hill... actually I just loved a lot of Generations Modern levels. If they could figure out a way to deliver a game that consists of those types of levels without endless padding that'd be great. It sounds like it's very work intensive to make any of these levels, so they have to cut corners and fill the game with endless fluff, and besides Unleashed all the boost games did that by doing various edits of the base level. If Colors for example did not do this there might have been 2 acts of unique content per zone (and spring levels over abysses or floating platforms in space do not count as unique content). Generations did this as well, but at least didn't disguise those challenges as full fledged "Acts". This game's doing it too, only it's so unfocused that I can't tell what's going on anymore. Like what are the chances we'll ever see a boost game that has 10 zones with 2 acts each and a unique boss per zone with levels that are of similar quality to Jungle Joyride? Add in Shadow, Blaze, and Metal Sonic as alternate characters in a similar fashion to how this game is handling Shadow and allow for online racing. They need that, not this.
Compared to windmill Isle day being an amazing (while also looking gorgeous) tutorial level sunset heights.... looks like a "my first time with a sonic level editor". That's not good. But comparing the avatar's park avenue (the track is called park avenue so fuck off that's what im going with) with tropic resort (first 3 acts) at least i can say it isn't forcing (tidus laugh) you to replay it after you unlock the fun. (Then again the avatar could be naked when you first go through. That would major suck big-time) It looks exactly the same as generations only with a drop dash. Oops. Really hopin these kingdom valley demo tricks and not the full thing. If it is, i can see sonic stadium rubbing their white gloves together in glee
I liked the medals, but I guess I am the only one. It was neat to search for treasures in the levels, and by the time I needed to enter Jungle Joyride I needed maybe 4-5 more.
I'm not against exploring for them, I just didn't like how they were mandatory. They've since been replaced with red rings though that serve pretty much the same purpose but are not essential, and I'm all for that.
By the way, Unleashed had a bunch of DLC that had new level geometry, hard modes, and so on. Most of the time the game didn't rely on boxes for the extra level layouts, but rather obstacle placement. I'd say that a good portion of the DLC still wasn't filler. What happened after 2008? Really. I guess that different people filled the director and level designer positions.
It's all because of Morio Kishimoto. He's the director for Sonic Colors, Lost World, and Forces. You can see the obvious similarities between these games in terms of level design.
The wii and ps2 versions had them as rewards for clearing the levels. Which was its advantage over the over their next gen counterparts.
Why do they keep bringing him back. Hopefully he's fired after this game. While we're at it get rid of Iizuka too.
Agreed. I'd much rather have the director for Sonic Unleashed or Generations take care of future Sonic games. Generations had some great level design, especially in Seaside Hill. Imagine if every stage in Sonic Forces was just as open as Modern Seaside Hill.
That's sounds a lot like blind defense to me. :v: Regardless, there's something important worth pointing out: I grew up with those games too! Sonic 2 on the Genesis was my first video game, and I played Sonic 1 very early on as well, but other than that, I'm not exactly brimming with nostalgia for the other Genesis Sonic games. My family was always poor, so those were the Sonic games we had, and in the summer of 1999, we lost our Genesis in storage. I was 10 years old in 2002 when I got my hands on Sonic Advance, and when a classmate introduced me to Adventure 2's GameCube port. I fell back in love with that shit immediately, and since I was only 10, I wasn't picky. I was hyped for Heroes and bought it as soon as it came out. Ditto for Shadow and 06. It wasn't until Sonic Gems Collection let me play Sonic CD, and sample 3's and &K's final bosses, that I got the itch to go through and play them all properly (via the Sega Channel, years prior to the storage fiasco, I'd had the opportunity to play the first couple levels of 3 and &K, but they didn't leave a sliver of the impact that 1 and 2 did). It wasn't until I had Sonic 1 and 2 on the XBLA that I actually played them and paid attention to the level geometry, that I actually took advantage of Sonic's ability to curl up into a ball, that I actually began to understand the distinct and interesting gameplay style under the hood. This resulted in reflecting on those 3D Sonic games from my youth and reevaluating them with a critical lens. They're not all complete garbage, but most of them don't hold up very well, and they all approach "going fast" in a far less interesting way, focusing more on cheap automation and ultimately-hollow spectacle. When Sonic 4 came out, it really hit home how crucial and integral accruing momentum was for making Sonic go fast in a way that's actually satisfying and interesting and distinct from a gameplay perspective, and how necessary it was to have a physics engine and style of level design to even enable that. Even back in 2008, I was still excited for (half of) Unleashed. The Boost gameplay looked really interesting. In 2011, I was excited for Generations, and pre-ordered that shit. it actually improved on Sonic Unleashed's good points, and it was a better showing for Classic Sonic gameplay than Sonic 4. Unfortunately, it still wasn't quite up to snuff, in the latter department. That's why Sonic Mania received the praise it did, at least from me. It could be discerned immediately in its very reveal trailer that the basic formula of [building inertia + sloping level design = speed] was back. It was an authentic return to form, and its resulting flaws (which do indeed exist) are incidental to that; that authenticity was the more salient attribute, an authenticity that hadn't really existed since 1994 (2001 if you want to count Advance; still a long fucking time). Unfortunately, for all of my fond memories of the 3D games, there's no peak state that an authentic return to form would really entail. The Adventure games never saw their full potential; either the gameplay components were poorly organized like in the Adventure games, the physics engine was horrendously off like in Heroes and Shadow, or both like in 06. The Boost games have never seen their full potential; they seem to always have at least one crutch (Werehog, Wisps and mostly 2D sections, Classic Sonic, Avatar). I enjoyed the hell out of Generations, I really did, but that was in 2011. Mania has raised the bar significantly, if for no other reason than just nailing the fundamentals, organizing the gameplay components correctly, and not relying on weak mechanical crutches (it makes use of nostalgia, but I'm saying that the mechanics are solid on their own, without the need for some alternative gameplay style). Seeing that Sonic Team hasn't moved past where they were in 2011 is disconcerting. Seeing several good points on how they're taking a step back from where they were in 2011 is even more disconcerting. When every major title since 1999 has been fundamentally off base in some significant capacity, that's disappointing, and that's coming from someone brimming with nostalgia for them who was there being hyped for them and enjoying them and playing the living shit out of them, every step of the way, after hopping on board in 2002. As someone who grew up with this shit, enjoying it every step of the way, I ultimately feel like I've been taken advantage of. I've been had. Like I'm partially culpable for the state the franchise was in back in 2006, and for the state it's in now. My starry-eyed loyalty to the franchise, and that of countless others, was precisely what allowed them to get away with putting out these low-quality titles in the first place; if they sell, fuck it just make more; and hell, as has been discussed at length in this thread already, that's probably what incentivizes the higher ups at Sega to keep dumping these projects on a team who is probably desperate for a different series to work on. Seeing my own now-thankfully-abandoned starry-eyed loyalty live on is cause for alarm. It's bad for me, who wants these games to actually get better. It's bad for people like you, who despite still being along for the ride, aren't likely to be on it forever. It's bad for the developers, who probably just want a fucking break. It's bad for fresh blood like Whitehead and his team, who need every opportunity possible to get pick up that torch. It's bad for the brand, who need less opportunities to be the defacto industry punching bag. I pray that this game does poorly, both critically and commercially, right after Mania's great success on both fronts. Not out of petty spite, but because I want the state of affairs to change. This isn't blind hatred, this is thought-out concern for every party involved.
We are on your side here, we want GOOD Sonic games for everyone. Stick around long enough and you'll realize us old farts are usually more right than we are wrong in predicting how these games are going to pan out.
