But seriously, the Sonic Adventure games are still my favorite 3D Sonic games. The Adventure games were not my introduction to the series, but they did reintroduce me to the series. Despite the glitches and flaws of the Adventure games (many of which were due to the fact that the video game industry was sort of still in the early 3D era), I think they are the closest to emulating the 2D Sonic experience in 3D. Sorry Izuka, but the boost-to-win games are barely even platformers in my opinion. Running at mach-speed in a corridor just isn't that fun to me. It also isn't fun when Sonic is so hard to control. Turning Sonic around in the modern games is like turning a freakin semi truck around; he handles terribly. In the Adventure games (especially Adventure 2), Sonic handled very smoothly and naturally; he was very easy to control. I wish Yuji Naka and the old Sonicteam were still around. I'd love to see a Sonic Adventure 3 developed properly with modern tools (I don't mean just slapping on the Havok engine like Sonic 06). Edit: More ranting. If we ever get a Sonic Adventure 3, which we probably won't, I would want them to return to the Adventure style. By that I mean the way the characters were modeled and represented in art. That style was definitely a product of its time, but at least it wasn't so awfully generic and uninspired like modern Sonic.
There's only one thing that clearly separates an Adventure game from a not-Adventure game in terms of it coming after SA2. Grinding controls. Bring that back and you can call it Sonic Adventurama for all I care.
Don't give a shit how drunk you are, I loved SA2's soundtrack, I love Crush 40, get fucked. //forums.sonicretro.org/public/style_emoticons/default/colbert.png
This. The Knuckles RAP is kinda bad even then it's not enough to get on my nerves and still enjoyable but the rest of the soundtrack is quite good and I can see why people like City Escape's song "Escape From The City". Crush40 does a good job on the game's main theme "Live & Learn". "E.G.G.M.A.N." is got a very catchy song here, too. I like the first Sonic Adventure soundtrack more (more varied) but Sonic Adventure 2 is a worthy soundtrack of it's own.
haha. Hungover now :v: For me as a teenager Crush 40 was about as uncool as you could get. And seeing as they where trying to market Sonic to me as the cool alternative to Mario, this among other things is why they failed. Crush 40 was and still is a bad decision for a mainstream Sonic game not because I think it is crud it's because it's such a niche sound. It's only ever going to appeal to the hardcore adventure fans. When something realizes it's cool then tries harder to be cool it fails to be cool. Yeah that makes sense
While I feel Iizuka gets too much flak around here, I don't think you can really defend some of the stuff he says at all. "Classic Sonic isn't coming back." Sonic Runners. "Boost gameplay is retired" Sonic Lost World, generally considered a worse game in most regards to the 3 that came before it, then we're back with Sonic Forces. "Sonic Forces isn't Generations 2." Revisit classic zones like Generations Green Hill and Generations Sky Sanctuary. Now we're here, the step forwards is apparently making an arguably worse game than Sonic Generations where the core gameplay is downgraded, and the custom player character is supposed to somehow be a noticeable step forwards in design for the series. Again, while I feel Iizuka gets too much flak, I sometimes wonder if he even believes some of the stuff he says, or it's just him going into PR mode.
I only played the demo of the 3DS version, so I wouldn't really know what to say about the levels, but I do agree it had better controls. Anyways, since I'm already on this thread, I'm gonna say that I'd be down for another game that has Adventure-esque gameplay and more open level design. Actually, I'd like to see the boost mixed with Adventure gameplay. I don't know, but I always liked the idea of boosting around on an open space and with freedom of movement, rather than the linear, corridor-like structures from the actual boost games (eventhough I enjoy them).
Iizuka and Sonic Team are stuck in a situation I don't think any other dev team in the industry has to deal with. They simply do not give a fuck and desperately wish they were working on something, ANYTHING else. However, they are working on a big-name brand that brings in the dollars. They don't ever give a shit like Nintendo does, because they don't have to. They don't have the pride that Nintendo does when they make Mario, because why put in effort when they can just shit out a halfway-decent game and dumbass kids will buy it anyway? Hell, we'll buy it too and we do nothing but bitch and moan! SEGA isn't starved for talent, they make the Yakuza series right now and had Amusement Vision, which made the excellent F-Zero GX and the first two Super Monkey Ball games--games which, for the record, featured slope and ball physics on par with the classic Genesis games (why AV was never given a Sonic game to prove themselves is beyond me). Sonic isn't an average series because SEGA sucks, it's average because Iizuka and ST just plain don't give a fuck and have no pressure to give a fuck. Spoiler Oh god I've become a Sonic grognard
It's weird that you remember it having worse levels, but nothing about the mandatory gyro controls and mandatory wisp usage (which often meant awkward controls) many of them had. It was also borderline impossible to homing attack only one enemy at a time since the targeting range is huge and, unlike the Wii U version, there was no traditional homing attack. Plus, the double jump and homing attack share the same input. Outside of those, I loved the control, though Sonic moves a bit too fast for my liking.
I don't know if I paid enough attention to the marketing to even notice this at all but I certainly don't remember any of it at all. I just played them because they were Sonic games as I was already hooked on the series since the classic era since the age of 5 or 6. I don't care if people thought if it was cool or not. I enjoyed the music these games had and still do. Then again I've never drank at all in my life and never will, so I cannot speak on the mentality of someone who got drunk off the ass and posted on a message board. I was about 13 going on to be 14 years old when Sonic Adventure 2 came out. Also I never listened to Blink 182 and don't care to. I mostly just listen to movie and game soundtracks.
I have no idea where anyone gets the idea about Knuckles raps being unironically good, because they really aren't. Most of the series' theme anthems (Live and Learn, City Escape, Open Your Heart, etc) are decent enough tunes and I've even been known to sing along once or twice when drunk with other Retro members ( :v: ) though.
I will put Aquatic Mine and Pumpkin Hill in my top 20 Sonic Songs (both Classic and Modern) and there's nothing you can do about it :specialed:
Subconsciously you put in lyrics for Mirage Saloon Act 1 :v: I'm actually quite shocked or hasn't been done yet. Those Unknown from M.E. Mixes don't count.
I don't think it's so much that they're "unironically good" as people are realizing they enjoy them unironically, which is the natural progression after enjoying something ironically long enough. Anyway the Knuckles tracks in SA2 are super enjoyable. The raps are pretty cheesy and sometimes... not good, at all, but they become pretty endearing over time, and the compositions behind them by Ohtani are still really good. It's cool if you don't like the rapping, but if you told me you wouldn't enjoy Deeper (Death Chamber) without the vocals over it, *insert exaggerated statement about your music taste here that would indicate my taste on the matter but also have a clearly-joking tone*.
Basically, I was just ranting. Don't take it personally. I don't actually think it's the worst thing, but I was one of the kids sad enough to care what was cool and not cool at school. Sonic did lose allot of that coolness in the late 90s and music does play a part in my opinion. That specific type of (punk rock?) will always be bigger in the US so I think it was a failure on Sega's behalf to train us Europeans on cute Japanese dance music then just go all rock on us. It was jarring, and still is to me. I get that people enjoy it, and that's cool I'm not tying to take it away from you. Anyway who am I kidding, I'd probably just end up singing them drunk with Overlord
No, it actually is. It's very difficult to hold onto an ironic interest for a long time without it becoming just a regular interest. Ironic detachment doesn't stick around long when you engage with the thing you're enjoying ironically on a regular basis because you'll naturally get more attached to it as a thing you engage with. Most people probably don't realize it until they've gotten way into their interest "ironically", though.
