In my opinion, the main problem with some of the tracks is that they take too long to get the melody started. Some of the classics had long intros as well, but they already started with a recognizeable melody, unlike the more rhythmic intros present in Mania, which may feel more like "filler".
I feel the same way. There isn't a single track I don't like from the game, but stuff like Studiopolis, Press Garden, Mirage Saloon, Eggman's theme, the Metallic Madness remixes... These tracks have a tendency to find their way into my head even when I'm not thinking about the game. Maybe it's a subconscious thing because I've heard the old songs so many times over the years, but either way, this is one of my favorite soundtracks for sure. I do have the more unpopular opinion that the original Lava Reef 2 sounded better. The electric guitar sounds great, but I prefer the old synthesizer... whistle... thingy.
https://twitter.com/TomFryPWG/status/905787695292669952 No idea if this is where I should be posting this regarding it's about the vinyl, but hey; people who got theirs have super secret stuff with it! I guess.
Not to discredit any other parts of that argument, but the argument that a melody is only good or memorable if you can hum it in your head or whistle it aloud has never really been a proper gauge from which to compare video game soundtracks. It's very subjective and almost trivial at times, because getting a song stuck in your head can be the product of many things, including nostalgia, familiarity, one's initial skepticism or openness, etc. That would probably explain why some say they are forgettable and others say they just can't get them out of their head even if they try. From a compositional standpoint, most of the new stage music is markedly similar to the 1, 2, and 3&K soundtracks, although instrumentation is expanded upon greatly. I was very skeptical of Press Garden, for example; I found the melody very boring and felt like the song didn't really give me the same kind of unique "atmosphere" that each classic level had. I really didn't find myself humming it or anything. However, after a playthrough or two I really started to love it. It made me wonder if maybe the "catchiness" of the song wasnt there simply because I wasn't familiar enough with the level for it to have a unique atmosphere yet. I was busy thinking "How will this compare to the classics?" and trying to view it as objectively as possible that perhaps I didn't realize how similar it was to the classics, and even if it puts a newer twist on things I began to appreciate it more after really getting a feel for the level. Now I seriously CANNOT get it out of my head. . . This might not be the case for anyone else here, ur maybe it sheds some light on this discussion? Just food for thought.
Nah, I kind of agree with you there. Lava Reef as a whole had some kinda...underwhelming tracks. They're still good, but maybe this is just me not being super fond of Lava Reef as a whole so I kinda forget about it a lot. Lava Reef act 1 just sounds like the original Lava Reef but beefed up a bit. Though I guess you could say that for Hydrocity too, and probably Flying Battery for the most part. The 3&K songs were really left almost untouched. But they still sound super good, so I don't mind. Gotta agree with you on the Metallic Madness remixes though. Those are really good, they sound nothing like the original MM present but they still have the tune and melody of it. They're goddamn outstanding.
I like Lava Reef Act 2's track but I agree that I prefer the original as I felt like it fit the zone better. That track sounded more mystical which was fitting given how it was a crystal cavern leading to an underground palace filled with magical gems. The electric guitar kind of takes away from that, although I suppose this Lava reef is a bit more industrialized so it kinda fits.
One thing I haven't noticed anyone talking about is how smooth and easy to control Knuckles is to control. Apart from his missing glide landing spindash, he's been enhanced in every way. I'm not a fan of how the DropDash has been handled in the game... It's a great move, but severely lacking in execution. The lack of instant feedback, the loss when shield moves are available, the fact that they could have easily included a complete move-set for Sonic... I wonder if they had a mandate or something? It's been said before but the lack of Amy is also a bit of a blow for the game. Not just to add a female character, but to also enhance replay value with her wholly unique style. I think it would be nice to have a female trio in future games to balance things out... Classic redesigns for Blaze and Cream perhaps? Blaze being the speed type, Cream being the flying type and Amy being the strong smashy type... Anyhow, when my only complaints are nitpicks, dreams or fancies... Well, Sonic Mania is pretty great.
I personally think the electric guitar in Lava Reef act 2 is very fitting; gives it a calm, chilled out mood while also feeling like a "calm before the storm" peak of an adventure type deal. I don't feel taken away from the fact I'm heading deeper into the depths of a crystal cavern, honestly; I feel more empowered to get to the end. However, I spose in the context of Sonic 3, Lava Reef's original track fits better. I'm of the opinion that this track fits Mania more than fine.
Man is the Oil Ocean Boss as Knuckles the new Special Stage 5? Like, it isn't something I could do blindfolded but you all are acting like it's some impossible thing when it's mildly difficult at best? The thing I said RE: Special Stage 5 applies here: Try different strategies! If what you're doing is costing you lives then maybe it's a good idea to pause the game, step back, and re-evaluate your strategy? I also don't get the claim that you can't reach the platforms from the oil as Knuckles? I was able to do so just fine, and one of the gifs posted shows it as well. But no, I've been slowly working towards getting 100% savefiles with each character. I only have Tails left and I came close to having all emeralds by the end of Chemical Plant! I mis-timed a jump in the last special stage and just beat the boss a moment ago. This did get me wondering about something, though: I didn't play much Sonic CD, but from what I understand the special stages are p. similar to Sonic Mania's. Are the physics similar enough that I've got a chance at getting all of the Time Stones whenever I play Sonic CD next, or are the physics too different for the skills I've learned from Mania to apply?
To me, this is it. This is like, the best lineup of tracks the series has ever had. Limitations and approach, followed by personal background, are the fundamental aspects that shaped the styles of any classic Sonic soundtrack. Sonic 1 and 2 are a subtle blend of 80's-90's pop with a cinematic edge. Sonic 3's is a bit more percussive and rhythmic. Chaotix is just fucking jazz half the time. I feel like a proper saturn Sonic game would have been privy to the lack of limitations, and therefore the next in line to compose the tracks would do whatever they could to demonstrate that. I mean look at Sonic CD! It's heavy rave, house, New Jack, and electronic soundscapes with a higher emphasis on ambience, and a lot of it is very improvisational. The style of the genesis games work well on the genesis. But translating that to a fuller soundscape might not capture the same feeling. For that reason alone I appreciate Tee taking the initiative to do it the Tee Lopes way instead of the "Sonic 2" way or the "Sonic 3" way. You can't really do Mirage Saloon or Press Garden justice with Genesis capabilities (believe me, I've tried), and that's why they're perfect! Also, to be fair, the catchy melodies are still there, they're just not the "main piece" of the song. C'mon now, you telling me this part at :54 isn't catchy as all get out? http://youtu.be/NIWyZmFSep0?t=54s
I don't see what people are struggling with personally. I have one-shot the boss each time I have approached it with regular Sonic/Tails/Knuckles. I bought the game for a streamer friend that last played Sonic when Sonic 2 came out and he one-shot the boss despite falling in the oil multiple times. You can take this boss really slow and do just fine with basic knowledge. This should be the typical thought process for a newcomer: Spoiler Room camera locked, this is the boss area as I've learned from other bosses. A tentacle is climbing two platforms, common sense says I better not be near those, I'll run to the corner which has been a safe space in many instances this game. Tentacles pulled down platforms, I probably shouldn't be on or near those when they're there. Eggman in a giant octopus has risen, there's the attack point. I took too long to process this and it disappeared, I'll wait until it returns to attack. A gun-looking tentacle is rising slowly. I probably shouldn't stare down the barrel, I'll move around and learn the attack pattern to hopefully avoid it. A tentacle with a needle on it just cheap-shot me. I landed in the oil, thankfully I learned from the level that I can mash jump repeatedly to get out of it and back on to the platform so long as I hold jump to maximize my jump height at the end. Tentacles are climbing the platforms again! Time to evacuate that area and prepare to hit Eggman. I got a few hits in, but also took damage from bullets that seem to have came from two larger tentacles above the boss. I'll have to avoid/destroy those (depending on if I realized they can be hit). The fight loops from here. As for the music, all of the new songs get stuck in my head daily at work without any provocation. Anyone that thinks they aren't catchy doesn't want them to be or has strict tastes that few artists would be able to satisfy. Edit: Also regarding the Special Stages, they're definitely harder if you approach them with the ideology of "Get as many blue spheres and rings as possible." The method I use now is jump as little as possible and if feasible, Mach 2 your way to victory. Mach 3 causes too many situations where you have to jump which slows you down. With that strategy, you should be able to get each emerald before the third lap.
I think some of the issue people have is that it takes too long to get to the catchy part. Don't get me wrong, I think all these songs are great. But there is a lot of buildup and the buildup isn't as memorable.
I agree with your thoughts, except I don't find it to be the case for me. With the focus on how melodic a tune is, this has its own points of subjectivity for sure, but I believe that's a topic far less subjective than talking actual opinions, which is what this conversation is typically and easily distracted by. In other words I haven't said "This isn't good because it isn't orange", but rather "This isn't orange." You throw it out there that maybe even identifying orangeness comes with a lot of subjectivity, but I still think that "how good" and "how melodic" are different leagues of subjectivity. But I'm not a musical whiz. Do the melodies in Mania stand out as clearly as the classics' melodies? Regardless of my feels, atmosphere, etc., I don't think they do. I feel like that's a fairly identifiable thing. Maybe I'm wrong, but look at Red Mountain. It may or may not be better/worse/more/less/memorable/forgettable/catchy/boring than Lost World... but one of those two levels sure has a much clearer melody. For me this is bizarre. I found jumping to be pretty much something to take advantage of whenever possible. Jumping is like free corners. Heh the special stages are so good either way. I wish there was a game full of them.
Apart from the missing landing spin dash... (glad I'm not the only one missing his real control)... there is a difference? I haven't noticed one. But I don't think I've played Sonic 3's Knuckles at all this year. Sure it's not just the improved animation? Mostly agree. The fuzzy nature of the drop dash kinda sucks, especially in a classic Sonic where really clean control has always been The Thing. (The water shield is fuzzy now as well, but I have to admit its new bounce is superior.) The shield issue is a tough one, since Sonic 3 started it. But I think they were definitely right to only give Sonic one move, and for that to be the drop dash. His design would have looked retarded if he just wielded extra moves for no special reason other than fan pandering. And I was literally the biggest insta-shield advocate but seriously, if I were building a game from the ground up, and my new character already has a drop dash, I wouldn't think "Should I give him a little invincibility flash move as well?" No. I would think that sounds ridiculously bloaty and like an 11yr old designed it. (Sorry 11yr olds.) I disagree with this one because Mania's job was to not risk annoying people with new ideas right now (case in point, your drop dash feelings), but rather to prove the old stuff can be done well.
RE soundtrack: Press Garden 1 is quite easily one of my favourite pieces of Sonic music ever. The guitar (?) bit between 0:21 and 0:36 probably isn't all that hummable, but I don't feel that that detracts from the piece at all. Not do the mechanical sounds that briefly interrupt all the other instruments. It's just different. This track is fun, funky and incredibly catchy. I adore it.
This is extra special to me and it arrived at just the right moment. A bit of a heads up, I've had a miserable last few weeks. My parents lost everything in the flood in Houston and I've been dealing with that. On top of that, today is my birthday... and last night, just after midnight, I got violently mugged by a meth addict in my own complex. This gift really, really cheered me up today. Thanks so much to Stealth, Iizuka-san, Hoshino-San, Lola Shirashi, Paul Veer, Slingerland, and those at Sonic Team for this, it put a huge smile on my face. I'll seriously treasure these!
Dang, dude. That's a sick instruction manual. Sorry to hear your weeks have been rough, but I'm glad you've been able to cheer up a bit. Wishing you all the best.
I can understand why people accuse Mania of not matching the style of the Genesis trilogy, and don't get me wrong I LOVE all the amazing memorable music from them, but Mania also needed to borrow from Sonic CD, and evolve minimally, without causing classic fans to go on a tirade. And with all that, I think it was an incredible success. Had Lopes stuck to merely emulating the genesis trilogy I'm sure a lot of people, especially reviewers, would have claimed Mania didn't go far enough, or that the soundtrack was ultimately hindered by it. Nonetheless, the music was still geared towards "the mania", just in a more inclusive way. I mean, think about it, the best way to ensure Mania doesn't receive a sequel would be appeasing only those with a nostalgia bias toward the genesis soundfont. I think Mania is the best of all worlds, and I hope it doesn't change very much should a sequel strive to evolve things further.
Here's a Stage 5 run I just did with little jumping and keeping speed at Mach 2. This is how I approach all the special stages now and they're a breeze. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0myMkHwkCt4
Now that's pretty awesome! And here I thought the signatures were supposed to go in the back. I'm glad you're still able to stay a bit optimistic given what's been going on those few weeks.
