Master Emerald, wow! I always thought it was strange that FBZ act one used the Act 2 into when the since was first revealed. Tee made some great changes! On another note, not sure if this was discussed yet, but I think Mania happened in a dimension in which Sonic 4 nor Knuckles Chaotix happened. Honestly, I think Generations goofed the timeline which is why Sonic had the homing attack in Sonic 4 (ignoring all the real world shit decisions of the real development for a minute). Remember, in the "original" dimension, the little planet is still fucked and floating in space as the defunct Death Egg Mk. II. Space and time is warped bringing the new Mania'd classic Sonic to this crap dimension. But now the question is, how did modern Sonic get there? Forces could actually be closer to Mania's dimension as his disappearance was really his warp to the future, which brings in line the "world without Sonic" claim. This also makes me wonder if the power source for Metal Sonic in Lost Labyrinth is related to the Phantom Ruby as well.
I can guarantee you that Sonic Team has thought about none of that stuff and you will never ever get an answer from them about it.
There's nothing preventing Mania from taking place before Sonic 4. After all, Mania leaves Metal Sonic broken in Stardust Speedway, just like Sonic CD did. As for Chaotix, Sonic Heroes eliminated that game from modern continuity. However if Forces really does end up establishing Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic as separate dimensions, then Chaotix could take place exclusively in the Classic Dimension (after Mania?). If Classic does get to be its own dimension, I wonder if they'll re-establish Vector, Espio and Charmy's original backstories, ages and character traits from the JP Chaotix manual. Then there's Amy, who was 8 years old in the JP Sonic CD manual but was changed to 12 as of Sonic Adventure. The little girl with a crush angle changes the Amy/Sonic dynamic a little.
Bump. Really no-one noticing this? I guess people just aren't trying Blue Spheres much in Mania mode.
I've only very briefly checked it out myself. The main game gave me my fill of Blue Sphere for a while.
Oh interesting find: Using the signpost in Debug mode you can go out of bounds in Egg Reverie and find that there are some unused tiles, including slopes. Perhaps there was meant to be more to that level at some point?
Oh, now that's a pretty interesting find. I can't wait to see what else gets found once the PC version comes out.
Perhaps the battle would have had a free-running, maybe even looping arena, alá the unusued Final Fever boss concept from the Sonic CD Taxman port. It would certainly make the Super Sonic mechanics more logical, as the screen would be able to loop horizontally in said scenario, making running and flying both practical tactics to avoid Heavy King's attacks. Just speculation, really, though. I wonder if we'll ever get to hear what was really planned for the game, before it got Sonic 2'd?
I just noticed that there's two different opening FMVs, music-wise. Let the title screen play once, you get the one song everyone's familiar with, then through a second run of waiting at the title screen, there's a different mix complete with sound effects for Sonic. I think this particular song was also in the credits (also complete with the sound effects)
Just finished reading though 64 pages of this thread, after finishing the game today with all emeralds following quickly blasting through a straight-completion with just 3 a day or two before last week's Barcade. I stopped when the spoiler stream started, and now I'm back up to date with every post on Retro again. Very grateful that a friend of mine changed my requested (and belated) birthday present of Bomberman Switch without telling me to an eShop card so I was able to play this - guess he figured I'd do nothing but moan for months otherwise =P This game, wow. This fucking game. 2 decades have been worth the wait. An abridged thoughts & highlights list: * Green Hill - nothing really much to say on this that wasn't said during all the preview footage. Still a decent reworking of the opening zone. * Chemical Plant - shout-out to the ring in CPZ1 approx 26 seconds from the start that I used to farm tries on the special stages :v: Loved what you did with the Mega Mack injections and had Giant Bomb not spoiled it the CPZ2 boss would have blown me away - much like I did to it on playing it. Who would have thought my torture on Puyo Tetris's later Puyo levels over the last month would have actually had some use? * Studiopolis - Though I was initially thrown by exactly how to hit the HBH here, I did get the hang of it after a few tries, and once I'd figured out the jump physics this has become one of my favourite bosses in the whole game. Special mention too goes out to the hissing TV at the end of Act 2 following the defeat of the weather boss. =P * Flying Battery - the storm in act 2 was a really nice idea, and pulled off well. The only complaint I had about this whole zone was the SCD electrocution sections towards the bottom of the second act being entirely too easy to fall to your death from. * Press Garden - I have no idea where the name for this zone came from, but the zone itself is pretty neat, and somewhat different from the "ruined cathedral" that a lot of us were expecting from that screenshot. Some novel gimmicks regarding the ice blocks, too. * Stardust Speedway - The Metal Sonic boss, while hard, is AWESOME. The boss music here is one of, if not my favourite track in the whole game. * Hydrocity - Realising I was going to be playing an inverted version of the S3 HZ1 boss was a laugh-out-loud moment. * Mirage Saloon - CHOO CHOO ALL ABOARD THE EGG-TRAIN! Also, THOSE GUYS/THE BOYS/THE DUDES. * Oil Ocean - fire shields. I picked one up at the start of OOZ1, thought jokingly to myself "Wouldn't these be a terrible idea in this zone?", and then almost instantly set a load of oil on fire. Laughed out loud again. (Zone does lose marks for having the worst boss in the game in the form of OOZ2, though.) * Lava Reef - Jimmy! Absolutely beautiful thing you guys did there. Also the HPZ section gets a special callout, as does the Act 2 music remix (another one high on the favourites list). * Metallic Madness - Expanding on the shrunken chibi sections, and the flipping into the background. Also loved the adorableness that are the Amy Dolls & mini EHZ/MZ bosses on Egg Gashapon. * Titanic Monarch - I realised what the zone design was as I was progressing upwards on Act 1 and was instantly struck by what a neat idea that is - I'm not sure any game's done this (maybe Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island?). Sonic's terrified face on the Egg-Robo cart rides was another fun touch, and the final boss is a decent challenge without feeling impossible to do. * Egg Reverie - Fun cross of Doomsday's flying abilities and a Sonic 2-style Super fight against Death Egg Robot. * 8 bit references a gogo, especially in Mirage Saloon! The Gigapolis boss, the sfx on the Magician Heavy changing form, #tentaclechestclaw4sonicmania becoming a thing on Stardust Speedway (I did wonder what Eggfan's reaction would be to that, I didn't see him post in the thread =P) * Hell, obscure references in general. Reading through over 60 pages of this thread has turned up ones I'd missed entirely, and I'm sure there's more. * Special stages! The mode you've made here is fun but doable, once I'd got the hang of it (took 2 or 3 deaths on #1 before I realised the game auto accelerates) - none of the bullshit that Sonic 2's 4th one is, though #4 and #6 did take me a few tries to clear (#4 moreso). Had no trouble with #5 at all. * GBS, now with added unlocks - I think I spent more time in Blue Sphere on my first runthrough than I did playing the game, getting about two thirds of the medals (most of them gold). I got the last ones today for a full set, now I just need to get the last quarter or so of the tally converted to gold from silver. The unlock ideas are nice too - while a GBS mode and debug was obvious, I don't think anyone saw the & Knuckles mode (complete with special Sonic Mania & Knuckles ending) coming. XD Congratulations to Taxman, Stealth, Hunty, Brad, Tee, Falk, Tyson and everyone else who worked on Mania - you knocked this one out of the park, well done. Moments in my first playthrough of this game have given me happiness I've not gotten from a game in MANY years. Sidenote: Everyone who's complaining about Time Overs, restarting on Act 1 after a Game Over and crushing deaths really DO just need to get better at the game. I do not consider myself a top tier Sonic player by any means, but I haven't got a Time Over on any 1P Mania stages nor have seen the Game Over screen (I did die several times during the course of my first playthrough, but that's what your lives are for!)
Act 1 is a (printing) press. Act 2 is a garden. :v: The two acts are so wildly different in theme and construction tha I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they were initially two entirely independent stages that were merged together for whatever reason (like time constraints).
Oh, THAT'S why it has those random letters that I was trying to see if they spelt anything. OK, that makes some sense. =P
And Splats has been reworked to be a a giant stamp. And the background has posters being printed. And there's "trees" that look like typewriters. And there's various other printing gimmicks. Spoiler And there are some giant letters that spell out"OLLEH" in a hidden room accessible by debug mode above the start of the level.
Real talk: It's a very cool level and very original for the series. It definitely has that "Loony Tunes" angle in Act 1 that people were talking about before. It's a bit... I don't know, "giant cartoon factory"? I can't really describe it very well.
Interestingly Stealth said that the initial idea for Press Garden was a sort of Wood Zone meets saw mill theme, but it eventually evolved into what it is now. I have to wonder how much Egg Garden from Retro Sonic played into it though. They have some similarities. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsFHfrfQEbM
I'm glad they didn't use up one of their only 4 available original zones on something too grounded and boring - and instead decided to take creativity through the roof as a 'slap in the face look that we can do' example which makes them stand out greatly! As I said a while ago though, if they do an entire original game they'll have room to switch it up and use some typical tropes in an original way.
Reminds me of when we had that single off-angle shot of Press Garden, and people were speculating about it being a cathedral, or greenhouse, or even a direct nod to Egg Garden. Funny it should turn out to be none of 'em... directly, at least. Incidentally, I always thought Egg Garden was rather similar to Sleeping Egg Zone from Sonic Chaos. Not sure if it's coincidental, though.
Press Garden Act 2 is defo one of the most unique and appealing Sonic levels I've seen in a very long time.
