Sonic Forces Thread

About the reviews:
Sadly, not many surprises there, just worse than I hoped. If, even taking just Generations as a reference, it already fails, then we're done. To those who thought it was Sonic Generations 2, let's say now it's just Sonic Degenerations. I'm losing the will to even try the game, at least until some other people plays the game and records a full walkthrough on YouTube.

About the music:
I'm honestly lost about what you mean by "cheese" or "cheesy" here. Since English isn't my native language, I accept I can't get everything you say, but you're using that word for tons of different songs in a lot of different music styles, and the meanings for that word that I've found on dictionaries don't fit that many times. If you mean they're pop-like songs even when they aren't pop, made in a simple way so they can have a commercial success that brings a lot of people in, I almost agree with you, but, then, I don't get the reason why people complain about that characteristic in particular, I mean, we're not listening to Beethoven or some progressive metal band, it's just a game for youngsters. In this sense, there are "cheesier" vocal themes in some games than in other ones, but it's still a rule, and a rule not necessarily linked to the song's quality.

This new vocal theme isn't exactly good, but it's not so out of place to argue about it. If we get strict about it, no style other than 90's J-pop would ever fit a Sonic game, but i really loved metal came around and helped with the speed thrill, at least for me. This vocal theme falls a bit between Senoue's metal and the more recent non-metal themes, with lower quality but acceptable enough if we compare it to, let's say It Doesn't Matter in its SA2 version.

By the way, my favourite vocal theme from a sonic game is CD's Sonic Boom, slow version.

 

People still call Sonic CD's theme Toot Toot Sonic Warrior 24 years later. Keep dreaming.

 

By cheesy I mean like corny or dorky. It doesn't mean that they're bad, they're just kinda dorky and silly.

Shame about the previews, however it looks like most of the complaints revolve around the switch previews. Granted it's the same game all around but still, sounds like the other versions will at least perform better. I still think the game will be fun but unless they change something it's probably just going to remain an inoffensive, ok romp, which is almost the best that can be hoped for for these please everyone games.

 

I've always seen it appear as "Believe In Yourself (Toot Toot Sonic Warrior)", so I guess that's just half wrong. :v:

EDIT: "Sonic You can Do Anything (Toot Toot Sonic Warrior)", I noticed the mistake after leaving the forum yesterday. The other one is "Cosmic Eternity (Believe In Yourself)". I felt kinda stupid for that. //forums.sonicretro.org/public/style_emoticons/default/psyduck.png

 

It's "You Can do Anything". "Believe In Yourself" is the credits song.

 

Actually, it's name is You Can Do Anything. Doesn't really matter since I can live with it, and I know what people mean when they say it. It's just a thing.

 

I was at least expecting apathy for Forces, but this is actually kind of disheartening. I thought the response would be "meh", rather than "not again". Yeah Mania will do fine, but who's to say that won't kill the "Sonic is dead" meme if it's just a small one off thing Sega doesn't push all of their focus on. If anything it might give naysayers "justification" for saying that nostalgia is the only thing holding the series together. I'll be pretty transparent in saying I wanted Mania to out do Forces, but I don't want Forces to suck. I guess we'll have to wait and see till more stuff is shown off, but this ain't looking good so far.

 

Someone else already responded to this, so there's no need for me to add much to this.

The custom character is there so that it adds a different playstyle in the game that focuses on Wispons and it was there for the sake of the fans who have made their own characters and wanted one of their own to be a part of a Sonic game. Both of those purposes are not trivial.

Sonic Mania's Green Hill hardly does anything different aesthetic-wise and its purpose in the game is the same as it was in Generations. Sonic Forces's Green Hill, in contrast, is much more different from the original aesthetic-wise compared to any other counterpart and remade version. Classic Sonic's Green Hill stage in Sonic Forces is structured like a classic stage more than the Generations one was. I consider any reasoning that people give in favor of Sonic Mania's Green Hill to be poor excuses.

You seem to have misread. I stated that people complain about the boost games not sticking with mechanics and improving those, which is the complete opposite of what you're trying to argue. This is also a completely unreasonable thing to complain about because the very few things that have noticeably changed don't even matter in the grand scheme of things. You were also just wrong about them removing important mechanics like the quick-step from the game. Also, what particular aspects of potential do you think are not being met? Compared to Unleashed, Sonic Generations controls much better and Sonic Forces appears to be making further improvements. Also, this talk about few alternate paths in the Boost-style games is blatant evidence of people not knowing the games that they prefer. Even starting from Sonic Adventure, the level design has mainly been linear with alternate paths usually located at the sides and typically lets you either skip a section or get rings. However, guess what? That isn't different from how alterate paths worked in the Classic games. I'll expand upon this.

Regarding the previews that Yeow posted, these are merely just the parroting of "Only the Classic games were good", a sentiment that is expressed by and also forced by members of this section of the fanbase. This is not surprising to anyone that has paid attention to articles like this. Moreover, it's evident that none of them would really like the old games if their complaints toward Sonic Forces were applied to them. For example, the person who wrote the Apptrigger article complains about how they want to go fast, yet they needed to slow down to deal with obstacles. I wonder what Sonic games they thought they were playing. You always needed to slow down for platforming in the Sonic games, people here like to say that Sonic games aren't just about going fast, and this person is complaining about the Homing Attack as if it's some new thing. If they played Sonic 1 and judged it by the same grounds, then they would no doubt hate it. There is one of the others that complain about the different types of animal that the custom character can become not controlling different enough, but that was generally the case in the classic games, too. The Wispons and the associated Wisps are what makes the most difference, anyways. In the end, none of these preview articles are worth considering. Many of these so-called issues boil down to them not wanting to put effort in maintaining speed through the stages and only want a game that is as easy as Sonic 3 & Knuckles, a game that gives you sections that freely provide speed and its associated reward.

 

Well I've given the Main Theme a listen enough times with the Lyrics. It's pretty... normal. Not the best nor worst vocal theme we've had in a Sonic game.
Although does anyone else get the impression the singer is awkwardly trying to fit lyrics into a pre-written melody rather than the melody working around the lyrics?

Either way, I thought it was amusing that the lyrics kinda sounded a bit weird, then I realized it kinda reminded me of the phrases written on the JP Sonic 1, 2 and CD covers, especially the first two lines. (Although at this point, you could do this with any song, but fuck it)



Also, SWEET MOTHER OF ALL THINGS. I know Youtube comments are a literal joke at this point, but the Sonic Forces ones are absolutely dreadful. Obligatory 'complaining about the haters' and "IT'S ONLY A SAMPLE" as if the vocalist will transform into Johnny Gioeli for some reason... also my favourite, the "I actually liked Sonic '06 and-" comments.

I'm definitely prepared to give this game a good playthrough and will probably enjoy it despite the clear flaws we're seeing now, but to act like any naysayer is just "hating" on it as if there's no legitimate critique is going well into cult territory. Then again, The Sonic 06 defenders back in the day were pretty great: "Guys, Sonic was never about speed!!" etc... :v:

 

I'm going to get some hate from this post but... I like the main theme. :v: I'm a fan of early 00's punk pop music, and well I get a huge vibe of that genre from this song because the lead singer of Hoobastank sings this. To be fair I only know one of their songs and damn did it get overplayed... Still don't get why they couldn't get Crush 40 to work on the music regardless.

 

I like the instrumental version a hell of a lot more. The lyrics aren't too bad, it's got just enough cheese to fit well alongside the likes of Endless Possibility and Reach for the Stars.

The singer, however, is a different story. I don't know what the fuck a Hoobastank is. The singer sounds really unprofessional, and it doesn't mesh well with the song at all. There's two specific bits where he's struggling to reach a high note, so he goes into falsetto, and it's really jarring. I prefer "Jump Up, Super Star!" to this, and I'm really not fond of that song either.

Also, what kind of song name is "Fist Bump"?

 

That vocalist choice just reeks of attempted focus-grouping, but Sega doesn't have a budget, so they got a dude from a band that was last relevant a decade ago.

Actually.....anyone else getting Sonic 06 vibes from this? His World used a vocalist from an irrelevant-at-the-time band too.

 

I love how some people are like "this is better than Mario Odyssey's theme song" in the youtube comments, because we always have to make this a dick measuring contest.

 

It comes across as something that's added in without much effort put into it. Where does it add anything in a gameplay standpoint? People who played say it doesn't. It's just there. They can still make it unique.

A completely new background, zip lines, a new cave section, using the fire shield as an alternate path, and alternate routes accessible to Tails and Knuckles. That's a whole lot different, and while it's still "Green Hill again", it keeps it fresh. Also, Forces Green Hill isn't structured like a Classic Sonic stage at all. Look at level maps from any of the Classic Sonic games. Heck, I don't even care if it's Classic Sonic level design in this case, I just want it to play well at the least.

I was referring to the last part you wrote in bold. Besides, how is that not reasonable to complain about? People are complaining that the base gameplay isn't being improved that much. Just because it hasn't changed much doesn't mean it got better, or that all critique is now void.
While I was wrong about the quick step not being in the game (I already mentioned that - but they did remove all of its effects), the drift looks like it might not make it in. We'll have to wait and see for that, but I also don't see how either helps your point, it just feels really incidental.

A few posts above you Yeow makes a list of what many people who actually got to play the game say about how he controls. His physics is inconsistent, Classic Sonic controls worse, Modern Sonic controls worse, the level design is worse... Plus, people here gave plenty of critique on Adventure's level design.

You're just disregarding what they're saying and making assumptions, when this can very well be honest critique. None of the people Yeow listed have a predisposed bias towards Sonic anyway.
Yeah, in the classic games you have to stop for a few platforming sections (that usually weren't mandatory), that's fine. But here it's incredibly simple platforming that's borderline pointless. This doesn't inherently ruin the game in a few sections, but here it degrades the game's quality. Eg.) Classic Sonic's Forces Green Hill where you're forced to run straight into a wall and wait for the platform beneath you to fall. There's no challenge, no way you can actually fail this part of the level. Like much of my issues with Forces, it's just sort of there and cheapens the game because of it.

It's not like I'm out to hate Sonic Forces. I just want a 3D Sonic game as good as Sonic Generations at least, and while that doesn't seem to be the case, Sonic Mania is something that gave me good impressions. I'm not going to take it personally if you like one more than the other, or if I have issues agreeing with someone on certain points of the gameplay. It's just that's there's a lot that bothers me about this game, but like I said earlier, I'm probably being way too cynical. And in reality, the fault is mine for assuming that the minutes worth of gameplay footage is fully indicative of what this game is. I don't think I'm wrong in pointing out the issues in gameplay we've been given. It's that they're certainly not selling me on what's been shown of Forces. They can always delay it if there's an issue with the inherent quality of it, and maybe this game is pretty good and I just don't have my mits on it yet.
PS: SEGA release an early demo like you did with Generations, please. Thanks. No we won't data mine it, I swear.

 

Yeah, ouchie. What makes it worse is this being in the release window of Mario Odyssey. I wouldn't imagine this game would sell horribly, but the previews aren't exactly glowing, and I'm sure that many will just opt to buy Mario Odyssey instead.

I doubt Iizuka will leave Sonic Team. He's not the producer of this game, but everyone likes pinning all the blame on him. I feel bad for Shun Nakamura though. He was the director of Sonic 06, and he's not bad at what he does, just seems to have bad luck when it comes to taking the spotlight with Sonic. If this game does badly, I hope people don't go on a witch hunt on him like some do with Iizuka.

I think you're overexagerating a bit, though. I mean, come on, them shelfing Sonic because of this?

 

He is the head of Sonic Team, though. Who decides who gets to produce each game? Is it Iizuka's call? If so, then he certainly deserves a share of the blame, though certainly not all of it. If it's a Sega mandated thing, then there's still someone higher up than Sonic Team ultimately giving the producer role to unfit people.

 

Remember, the levels the previews are talking about are all levels that we've seen and were in the E3 demo. They're still just talking about Green Hill Zone and Park Avenue. You know, the introduction levels of the game (for Modern, Classic and Avatar). If we judged the entirety of Sonic Colours Wii just based on Tropical Resort, it'd be the same thing.

That said, I'm already pretty certain that the Avatar gameplay will be the weakest of the bunch. Getting to use Wisps is neat, but the core gameplay is just very standard and boring in the first two levels we've seen it in. The customization will most likely not make a big difference in gameplay. And the Sonic R-esque music in the Avatar stages isn't getting me all that excited either.

 

Right. Even if he doesn't make a lot of the decisions, he's still the one who says the obnoxious things that tend to make this side of the fanbase angry. Remember when he said the boost formula was done with, and they were going to work on different gameplay styles? That lasted for one game. Remember how he thought Shadow would appeal to Americans more because guns? Or the stupid moon retcon? Even if he doesn't directly give commands, he must sway the direction of things a lot.