I'm going to re-post the mock up Chaud made back in March for the sake of the current conversation. Some people are saying that we are nick-picking too much, but that's just who we are at Sonic Retro, for better or worse. I'd argue even more so in this case with the Maina Team having their roots in sites like Retro or Cult. It gives people a personal attachment to the game that we have not had with any other before it, and since we know the developers do read this forums, there is hope that any comments or critiques put forward would be considered. As for the tiling issues with Flying Battery, I'm of the camp that it should be fixed/changed. For the time in 1994 it was acceptable, but now we shouldn't have to live to those restrictions. I don't pretend to know how the levels are made, if they are still using a chunk based system like Sonic 1-3 uses, but surely they could refine the details in the foreground tiles. In Chaud's mock-up, I really like the depth given with the darker shading on the parts in behind. He also gives a more logical sense of how certain pipes and pieces connect together. Regardless of what we say on Sonic Retro, I know we all want what is best for the game. We each just have our own ways of showing it, and have differing opinions on the matter. Maina Team, I hope this game turns out exactly how you envisioned it, and I wish you guys the best of luck,
A lot of people see this kind of nitpicking and think "god you people just want to complain, you'll find any reason to hate on the game, you clearly don't even like Sonic, you're what's wrong with the Sonic fandom, you can never be satisfied so why should they even try, why don't you just be happy they're making a good game for once" In my experience, this kind of "no detail too small" nitpicking requires a level of passion that you can't get with hate. Even the most detailed criticism is completely different when it comes from a place of dislike or indifference. Only people who love what they're talking about behave like this, and that's why I celebrate this kind of nitpicking. That said, I don't envy the devs reading this thread. I've seen other game devs and internet personalities be pretty badly affected by the negativity and criticism the internet throws at them. I hope none of our comments (especially mine) have hurt or bothered you. Hopefully it's outweighed by the overwhelming positivity, but no-one is thick-skinned 24/7. We all love what you're doing and have faith in you, remember that. (Personally, I find this thread adorable.)
I feel the tile-fix mockup missed the aspect of the original messy tiles making the foreground as a whole feel more vibrant and full, particularly with the reds and yellows strewn about. Adding shade to the less visually-sensical areas makes the scene feel darker and duller. A better solution would be to find a way to keep the overall color map while replacing tiles/drawing new tiles to avoid the uncanny breaks in the machinery. This is just a criticism of the image, though. I'm impartial to whether or not the Mania team makes any changes to Flying Battery's foreground at this point.
If that's what developers think plumbing should look like then I think I should go hang myself. It makes no bloody sense and is just as bad as this abomination in Final Fight. This is a P-trap on on gutter pipe with other crazy shit going off. The only time you do pipework like that is when it's an expansion bend for say heating pipe but they're meant to be horizontal so air traps don't happen. It's definitely gutter pipe because it's outside and there's no pipe lagging. Sorry for the mini rant it's just that if you're going to fix the tiles for Flying Battery at least do the plumbing correctly. The guide to laying pipe is to avoid creating airlocks and do pipework that will create the least resistance which means as few bends as possible as they create resistance. Also on industrial there's a unwritten rule to keep bends at 90°. 45° offset bends are mainly used in domestic properties, mainly due to how little room you have.
Oh I don't even care about pipe rules, I just don't understand why it originally and currently looks like Robotnik's junk drawer. At least he'll know where to go when he needs an extra U Pipe or furnace window :specialed:
You're missing the point I'm making that if you're going to correct something graphically at least make the thing your correcting correct. From a plumber's perspective it looks like shit.
That sentiment seems a little backwards in a game about giant animals running after a fat man. Really loving the mixture of gimmicks here, makes it feel fresh while also looking amazing. Dem Backgrounds.
Yes, in a game about a blue hedgehog and mysteriously floating rings, what we really need is realistic pipework. ____ One thing I've noticed about both GHZ and FBZ is that the backgrounds have been completely redrawn, while the foreground remains largely untouched. Since I know that they have the skill to do more with it I'm wondering why they don't, is it to save time?
It's all cool peeps I can take it. Just remember to PM me your addresses so I can give you a warm thank you.
I can just picture Mario at his PC typing a review about Mania saying it's shit because the piping is unrealistic Someone please draw that
Here you go, have a shitty sketch of that :v: Spoiler If any developers are here, I'm so sorry, I just wanted to see some loose ends connected, I don't expect you to become plumbers apprentices to learn the ins and outs of pipes.
In all seriousness though, I feel like that's digging way too deep into "fixing" the art. Sometimes we just have to pick and choose our battles as to what's a necessary fix and what's not.
On today's episode of 'Announcement of an Announcement' Mario finally tells the world how frustrated he is about the surrealism of pipes in Sonic's world. His World. The physics of the air pockets on the pipes would have created an overheating issue with the main propulsion systems of the Flying Battery. Causing it to fall out of the sky over the Sandy Carnival Mushroom Ice Cap Mountains...... I love you all. I'm 31. What am I doing with my life?
