Sonic 1 and 2 getting the Sonic CD treatment by Taxman and Stealth

I'd imagine that if it's just a case of re-releasing Sonic 3 with new music, they'd have done that by now.

Wasn't there an interview with one of the MJ team where they said the MJ estate was going to go after Sega for past royalties? I suspect that the problem is that when Sega did their deal with MJ back in 1993, the contract didn't take into account things like emulation and remakes. So when Sega does these things, it creates a grey area as to what royalties the MJ estate is owed. Hence, it's probably easier for Sega to just distance themselves from Sonic 3, as if they start swapping out the music, it will look like they knew that they had to pay the MJ estate royalties and were purposely avoiding it.

I know that several places still sell emulated versions of Sonic 3, but these were probably released before the MJ estate became aware of the situation (and so pulling them now would just make Sega look guilty).

It's all just hunch, but whatever the issue is, I'd imagine it's not something that can be easily resolved.

 

But they already did that, in Sonic & Knuckles Collection...

 

To be fair, that was years before the situation became common public knowledge.

 

And let's not forget some of the Sonic 3 tracks ended up being reused in Sonic Pocket Adventure, which wouldn't help the situation much.

 

That's more because this has a lot of money going into it, so if it flops, Sega's out quite a bit.

SoJ is making their own Sonic game, which we should begin hearing about in the coming months.

 

They also practically recreated the game in Sonic Jam as well as tweaking around with the levels a bit. I'd imagine that it wasn't simply a case of 'public knowledge' - but whatever happened with MJ and Sega must have had a profound effect on the company, so much so that they'd distance themselves from arguably one of the greatest Sonic games in existence.

 

Even so, SEGA still owns the game and the game itself isn't the issue, just the music and they did find someway to make Generations work.

I think SEGA can still release the game with the replaced tracks and work out things with the MJ estate, I doubt it would piss them off that the game that the tracks are in is getting re-released without the tracks, unless they really want to charge SEGA for more royalties.

 

Granted it might as easily be for a trivial reason like they think the remakes will lose their draw appeal after so many titles of the same series (granted I suppose it makes sense that they could want Taxman's team to help endorse another series aside from Sonic at this point).

 

Given precedent, I'm certain SEGA's official word will not be the first time we hear of it. :v:

 

Maybe your conspiracy theories are just that. Maybe the real issue is money. Why haven't Sonic 1 and 2 been ported elsewhere? Your royalty theory wouldn't apply. Maybe it's because Sega just doesn't feel that the return on investment would be worth it? Perhaps the same applies to S3K? It is easily the biggest and most intricate Sonic game in that series. Your budget right there is exponentially higher than the other games.

 

I guess, but how high can the budget really be when the assets, engine, music, and framework are essentially done?

 

Perhaps Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (20XX) just requires a bit more time since the original was quite a bit more grandiose then the prior two games? You could hack Sonic 1 and 2 for years before Sonic 3 was finally figured out in regards to hacking them, iirc.

 

Assuming music was the actual culprit..
So what is the legal difference between releasing emulated version of the original and an (enhanced) port?

Also, if the music really had a legal problem for the PC version, how come another port of the game is released for Saturn later with the original music?
How come it is ok to release the original music in the 2011 steam version, but suddenly the situation has developed between the 17th and 20th S3K birthday? What changed?

I don't see any continuity here.

 

YES but... the Sonic 1/2 remakes almost follow more closely to S3K in terms of engine and such anyways...

The only way this argument carries any credence would be to Zone specific objects... and given how they got everything else like Shields, and instashield, and all S3K abilities... I don't think the other code is gonna be the biggest hassle, and is kinda an underestimation of these guys.

I'd go with the budget reason... but then again I believe they ARE working on it and just being hush hush... as I've said in the past... if it wasn't happening, one of the two would chime in and say as such, or something else to the effect of Never say Never...

They are keeping their lips sealed shut. I think it's happening. Maybe I'm wrong...

 

We know that Taxman said sales of Sonic 1 & 2 mobile exceeded expectations, so it's quite unlikely that it's a cost issue.

Sega has dropped Sonic 3 in other places (e.g. The Arcade 80, which features Sonic 1, 2 & Knuckles), so that suggests there is a legal issue.

Of course, this is all just speculation, it could be completely wrong.

My theory is that Sega's contract didn't allow for the music on PC, but did allow for it consoles. The problem arose when Sega released Sonic 3 on PC via emulation. Does an emulated game on PC count as a console release or a PC release? It's still the console code, even though its on the PC.

There's also the possibility that various development teams weren't clued up on the situation and so used the music by mistake.

 

My personal pet theory for why S&KC had the songs replaced is that only the original takes on the song were licensed for use (I.e. no remixing/rearranging allowed). Sonic Jam would thus get away with it since everything in it were just recordings from the MD, and emulated collections get away with it because it's still the original version, but S&KC used MIDIs so it was screwed. And since these mobile remakes have had ‘remastered’ music, they might have issues too.

 

... and Pocket Adventure?

 

There's many Sonic 3 tracks missing in Pocket Adventure, as well:
http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Pocket_Adventure_OSV

 

But they both did chime in and say as such, no? Isn't that what the last few pages have been about? Admittedly it's not easy to keep track since this seems to be the "all Taxman/Stealth stuff ever thread".

I had always assumed it was something like this myself. Good to know I'm not alone!

The surprising thing about SPA is that it does contain one of the replaced, presumed controversial tracks in the form of Knuckles' theme from S3. But being a fairly simple beat, and lacking any of the distinctive DAC samples having been downsampled for the NGPC, you could probably argue that it's not the same track if pressed. (Recall that the DAC sample ID of the clap from Knuckles' S3 theme was reused in his new theme in S&K, but was replaced by different sample data that fit the same rate/length specifications, which is interesting in itself.)

Unfortunately, until or unless further evidence emerges, knowing the full story about any of this seems to be off the table.