What do you want Sonic to be

What do I want Sonic to be? Exactly what he is now.

It's a chance for me to discover different types of gameplay I might like without leaving the comfort of the Sonic universe. As long as it stays in character with the general aspects of Sonic games, I'm fine with whatever Sega throws at me. I'm actually enjoying all this experimentation.

 

Dispite the facetiousness, I think that's an excellent point actually. What I would really love to see is a new (perhaps not mascot, but) character, storyline, and different gameplay altogether. Rather than exhausting new styles of gameplay and stories onto the everlasting Sonic The Hedgehog. I don't necessarily mean dropping the Sonic franchise altogether, but a brand new game that has no direct relations to Sonic besides being a platform action game, based around a fictional character, with a different uniqueness in gameplay. I could go for that...

 

Been there, done that... We're talking now, not several years ago.

 

I'd honestly rather just see them bring back Billy Hatcher or NiGHTs and do them justice instead of going out of their way to make yet another mascot character that goes nowhere beyond their first/second appearances. Especially since both of those are rooted on great ideas that never got enough elaboration behind them.

 

I'm sorry, you're right. I'll rectify my mistake by posting a more accurate response.

I would like to see Sonic in-game with the simplicity of the first Sonic The Hedgehog (16-bit) game in terms of level structure, but with the added moves and functions of say Sonic 3 (& Knuckles). I would enjoy the art and music being at the highest quality given that we now have the hardware for that, but keeping in mind the style of the art of Sonic 1/2. I'd prefer Sonic not to have a chest, and to be small (I believe the old referrence was "Cute, but cool"). Voices for the characters? Sure, so long as they're decent actors that actually "feel" like they're the part, and don't sound too arrogant. I actually hate the way Sonic sounds, not because of the actual voice, but because of the tone. It's way too cocky and arrogant for such a small, cute and hip character (There's nothing wrong with attitude though, I do encourage it).

Another thing that would be nice is using the Sonic 3 (& Knuckles) SFX, if you might have noticed, Sonic 3D, Sonic R, Sonic Jam, Knuckles Chaotix, etc, all use those common SFX that are generally found in Sonic 3 (& Knuckles). Even Ristar has been known to have them, there seems to be a uniqueness about that. I'm all for cut-scenes (even those of FMV), once again, provided the acting is swell, and there's a decent enough story to merrit such clips. Gameplay wise, gotta be 2D platform, no doubt about it. I'm am however all for the whole 3D perspective with a 2D gameplay (like Generations for example), and of course, 3D special stages and collecting the seven chaos emeralds, but it has to be something mystical and surreal, like you're on another planet or in another dimension like Sonic CD. An unlockable set of goodies would be nice, but isn't essential. When it comes to actual levels, I'd like to see unique brand new levels, not rehashes of levels we've seen before. If I see Green Hill Zone in a new game again, I'll scream. We've gotta have new levels, that's a must.

The good old standard storyline of Dr Robotnik kidnapping the animals and turning them into an energy source for robots, that's definately a yes, it's always been the basis, and I feel it still works today. Why they removed it is beyond my comprehensiveness, but an additional main story to add on to the top of that is definately welcome. Additional things such as overworld maps or main menu screens are too welcome, though not essential, I can live with or without those. So to basically summerise this. I'd like Sonic to take a major step backwards, but without rehashing everything to the letter (like I said, some unique levels that aren't Green Hill Zone or Sky Sanctuary Zone, over and over, is what I'd be looking for).

Again, my appologise if my initial post wasn't up to scratch, although you're right that the title does say "What do you want Sonic to be". The first paragraph however elaborates a more open mindedness of our response, giving the slight freedom to swing out a bit:

I'm also curious to understand why you didn't jump at these guys:

Their posts are basically on a similar field to mine, being that I initially stated I would prefer nothing added/changed about Sonic. Yet not a single word was said against them.

It is also my understanding that you're not a staff member either, so questioning how I post in a topic is kind of out of your jurisdiction (I'm aware of the irony that I'm currently doing the same, I'm mearly just proving a point). I not trying to start an arguement here or anything, I just don't see how you questioning me is fair at all, given that I haven't said two words to you to deserve such a grudging and frank response. If I have upset you before in another thread at some point, then I'm afraid I don't remember, but I appologise in advance.

 

I don't mind where he's at now, but I do think things could be improved upon:

I tolerate the conservativeness of the franchise mostly because I'm glad we're not in the dark era Shadow/06 bullshit, but I wouldn't mind seeing some experimentation here and there.

I'd love a 2D Sonic game constructed similarly to Castlevania: Rondo of Blood. I think it's basically the logical direction for the series to take after S3&K, adding in multiple exits for each level and unique boss fights.

I'd also like to see a Metroidvania-ish Sonic title. Tails Adventure was a decent foray into the subgenre but I think the franchise could do so much more in a 2D Metroid style game, though with emphasis on rolling physics (Like say, utilizing the physics in certain way leads a path to a cool powerup that you can't otherwise get, rewarding skilled play) and varying scenery (What I DON'T want is that type of game suffering from what Castlevania Harmony of Dissonance and some of the other Metroidvanias suffer from and that is having the entire setting feel a bit homogeneous, varied and beautiful settings have always been and should be a staple of Sonic).

As far as 3D goes, I'm perfectly okay with the current direction. A little bit more refining on certain aspects, but honestly I think 3D Sonic isn't in that bad of a place right now. I wouldn't mind seeing a collecta-thon type 3D Sonic game (As long as say, it was built around it, and not just thrown in at the last second).

I guess in general just a tad bit more variety and some more consistency.

 

The ideal designs:

Spoiler

The games that refined and perfected the Sonic aesthetic, in terms of visual style, music, and atmosphere:

Spoiler

All of that needs to return, along with REAL Sonic physics. People seem to hail Generations as having done a good job, but it just tells me they never really played the original games. Generations' 2d physics were sub-decent. The original games had free organic physics. Just a set of fundamental laws, and from there they only needed to build the terrain. Generations has tons of cheats and guides along every curve and slope, taking over every little movement that isn't on flat ground. It's infuriating, it's nothing like how the original games played. Sonic Advance's physics were leagues better, it was at least organic and didn't rely on disgusting little cheats that take control away for every specific surface. If they can't do it on their own anymore (and they can't, obviously), they might as well just copy Sonic Advance.

 

I can't agree more. The thing I dislike the most about the modern games, even the good ones, is the excessive use of scripted events. Games are to be played, not watched.

 

Welcome to the modern age! Where if you distract people with story and pretty setpieces enough they'll ignore that they're barely interacting with anything in the game!

I don't see how anyone who played the originals could see how Classic Sonic was doing any of the classics justice either, bar the visuals and music. With Sega being ok with branching the franchise out into multiple universes and radically different series for the games, I can hope that a branch comes along to follow up on the classic style made by people who understand what they're doing.

 

tl;dr - Basically this:

Long version:

- I don't mind 3D gameplay, if done right it can be a whole lot of fun, like focusing on exploration instead of rushing down corridors with the boost button.

- Physics are the key element for me, most of the things I enjoyed in the classic series was physics related, come on, is there something cooler in a Sonic game than pressing down on a 45º hill filled with loops or a half pipe in the end that can lead you to another path? That was the shit. At least for me it was never about getting through the stage as quickly as possible, but getting a nice flow of movement with momentum, air control, boucing on enemies, etcetera.

- To the hell with however though it was a good idea to give Sonic a realistic setting, it's a goddamn oversized blue hedgehog running on two feet at the speed of sound. How is that in any way possible something that looks "right" in realistic locations?

- Also, Sonic should change as well, even though I'd prefer him going back to it's classic form, I can see why that wouldn't appeal much for younger audiences, but fuck, try finding a middle ground. Make him smaller, maybe a little fatter, etcetera.

- No homming attack, no boost. The only "new" skill that I actually like and think it can expand the classic gameplay is the bounce bracelet.

- Enough with the complicated plots, just simple ones. It's okay having more than the "the princess has been kidnapped once again" kind of deal, but don't go overboard. I don't mind the cutscenes or the voice acting or even the humor and jokes as long as it stays simple and don't take too much time.

- More "Acts" per Zone. Not all with the same theme of course, that would get boring easily, but in a Super Mario fashion where you have different stages that relate to the theming of the zone but aren't exactly the same type of stages. Even if they have to be in the form of challenges like Generations did.

- No scripted scenes. Player in full control to the very beggining to the very end.

- I also love being able to change the zone's music in Generations, I'd totally make it a regular feature instead of a one time thing only. It makes replaying the zones much more fun.

- Red Rings are fun... until they're put in locations where you can't backtrack to. They should be made for players that like to explore the stages.

- No more bottomless pits. If a pit is absolutely necessary, at least have it with spikes and a spring in the end or whatever. Most platform games have them, sure, but most platform games don't have the character moving at very fast speeds, that's why they feel so cheap and wrong in Sonic games.

- Elemental shields are awesome and they should totally be brought back. Heck, there should even have newer ones.

 

Sonic CD. Over and over and over again.

 

Alright, you got me. I'll give you a proper answer. But only because your hacks are great.


In terms of gameplay, I've always liked the classics. I'd like to see basically an extension of the formula used in S3K and Chaotix, where each character has their own unique talent. Some abilities from the modern games could be added too. Let's say Sonic, Tails and Knuckles are playable: Sonic could have the bounce attack, Tails could have the tail swipe, and Knuckles could have punching and wall-digging. I wouldn't mind seeing Amy be playable again, either, requiring you to get creative with her hammer and acrobatic skills.

It'd be great if there were different versions of the levels per-character, each one taking advantage of those specific character skills. Sonic's stages would generally have you finding your way to the end, Tails and Knuckles would be more exploration-based, with Tails using flight and possibly demonstrating his tech-savvy by, say, unlocking closed one-way doors, and Knuckles utilizing climbing, gliding, and digging. Amy could participate in wood shop classes deal with more heavily-armored enemies who need a well-placed smack with her hammer. She could also use her hammer to pound down stakes that would open new pathways (yes, like Kirby, leave me alone).

As for art and musical direction, I personally have always loved the artstyles of both Sonic CD and Chaotix. Those games's environments are colorful, flashy, and abstract, yet recognizable. That's what I feel they should go for. It'd feel pretty natural, I think, if the games looked like they came after Chaotix, such as a Sonic 4 might have, had the Saturn era not been a disaster for Sonic. In terms of music, I'll echo the love for Sonic CD (JP, of course) and Chaotix here. That said, I also love the "Saturn/Dreamcast-era Sega games" sound; think of Burning Rangers, or NiGHTS, or Sonic Adventure. If I had to choose, I'd probably go with that style, though with less buttrock (endearing buttrock to be sure, but still buttrock, sorry Jun) and more of Fumie Kumatani's jazzy work.

I don't really care about Sonic's design. The graphics in a hypothetical game of this kind would hopefully be 2D, and either a classic or modern Sonic design would have to be simplified for clarity anyway. As for the plot, really, just keeping it simple is fine. Eggman is stealing the animals or whatever, oh no! Chase him to his space base and stop him from realizing his eeeevil aspirations! I doubt any of us are asking for much more than that.

So yeah. That's about all I've got. Hope you enjoyed getting me to make a vaguely meaningful post. Adios.

alternately they could just make a bunch of generations sequels

 

I jsut wanted sonic generations to be expanded upon, with controlable tails and knuckles. Each level having unique paths that play to each characters unique abilities (klimbing, smashing walls, flying).

 

The feeling of being free. Sonic is a free spirit. I don't like to be constrained by the game world, and I'd much prefer that the world itself be open as well, much like Sonic Adventure. I've never felt the sense of freedom in a Sonic game like I had running about the Mystic Ruins.
Of course, for traversing obstacles to feel like an accomplishment, they need to be relevant and imposing without proper use of momentum. Soaring past all the detail doesn't feel compelling to me, so I don't care for boost.

After that point is made, a world with all sorts of interesting goals and ways to use this base gameplay would be fun. Missions and the like. What '06 tried and failed to be. It seems Sonic Boom will have a lot of what I'm looking for in a Sonic game. (even if I don't care for steroids)

A wide array of optional characters would be nice. Not simple gameplay types like we've seen since Heroes, but with each character bringing a little something unique to the table, even if it's as minor as stat differences.



Story-wise, I was very fond of the Adventure series and Riders 1 and ZG. Adventure 2 had the best storytelling, even if the story itself was a tad inconsistent. However it still always gave me a little cognitive dissonance for some reason. Dunno. Adventure 1 felt just right presentation-wise though (given technical limitations for their first real 3D game). Lighthearted enough, but still meaningful and atmospheric.
I'd like something that's a tad less heavy Adventure 2, but still has the character development.

 

I'll just throw in my two-cents:

I just want a proper sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles. 16-bit or "New Super Mario Bros style", I don't care either way, as long as it's done well. As long as the physics are identical to the classic games. I don't know why it's so hard for them to get it right, when the likes of Damizean and Mercury have near-perfect replications on their respective fan gaming engines. It should have all the features that S3&K had, and more. Just like how S3&K had all the features of S2 and more. Which means playable Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and a new fourth character (most likely Amy with her Sonic Advance 1 moveset). In fact, come to think of it, Sonic Advance 1 could have really been the true Sonic 4, my main gripe with it was that the levels are waayyyy too short, and there's a lot less levels than we got in Sonic 2 and S3&K, and the levels themselves felt uninspired and generic as opposed to the gigantic S3&K levels that all felt truly unique. Elaborating more on the "it should have everything S3&K had and more" point, I mean it should have things like elemental shields (maybe even introducing a new one), check-point minigames like S3&K, Super Emeralds, all that stuff.

Right now, I think an example of a perfect Sonic game is Tiddles' Sonic 3 Complete hack. While it's great and all, it would be nice to get a proper sequel to S3&K that actually improves upon S3&K. I want a 2D Sonic game that will blow my mind away, in the same way that Sonic 3 & Knuckles blew mine away.

Come on, SEGA. Just let Taxman and Stealth make their own game already.

As for 3D games, I don't have much to say other than give us Generations but with longer acts, less BOOSTBOOSTBOOST, more platforming, more levels, and playable Tails and Knuckles in 3D. I haven't played Lost World but I think it looks horrible (and I tried the 3DS demo and it was indeed horrible).

 

Give me either another Sonic CD or another Sonic Generations. It's that simple.

 

My first thought was in terms of games, I just want a genuine sequel / spiritual successor to the Genesis Sonic games, nothing like Sonic 4 (in fact, if they /ever/ make another Genesis Sonic game, getting as far away from 4's influence as possible should be a top priority). Or, like Roller suggested, a 3D Genesis Sonic game in the vein of Super Mario 3D Land/World's approach of recreating the 2D gameplay in a 3D space. Or, a (spiritual) successor to Sonic Adventure with all of the mandatory fluff cut out (no genre roulette or mandatory minigames)-just the Sonic gameplay adapted to other characters a la Sonic 3&K. But I've kinda given up on those seeing those, as the current Sonic Team seems to actively avoid most of what the old guard Sonic Team brought to the table (series staples aside)-including all of the stuff that made the Genesis and Adventure games good and game elements that while botched in execution were great in concept and could be turned from crap to great if revisited and either revamped or polished.

Then I started thinking in a series-wide manner. In terms of the series as a whole, I would just like the Sonic series to stop streamlining every console games into one mainstream series and having every new gameplay style or new mold of Sonic game replace the previous gameplay style / mold of Sonic and overtake the series as a whole. Define the Classic/the Hedgehog # games, Adventure games, and the Unleashed style of games as their own branches/sub-series of games within the main canon, with all of the other console games (read: the "experimental" games like Heroes, Colors -I believe the emphasis on using Wisp powerups and the mostly 2D approach makes it quite distinct from Unleashed and Generations' gameplay structure-, Lost World, etc.) as miscellaneous games. Ideally it would be nice to have all three branches of gameplay thriving, so nobody has to get shortchanged. The current Sonic Team can either expand itself to support all three groups, make (a) division(s), or hire other developers (that aren't Dimps) to handle the other styles of play. But it's something I can hardly see Sega/Sonic Team doing anytime soon if not ever (and considering how splintered the fanbase is by this point, it is a task that should had been done when Adventure and Unleashed reared their heads, though doing it now would take the sting off a bit...I guess).

Finally I started to think of what I personally just want by this point. I'd have to echo what David The Lurker said-I just want another fun Sonic game. Not just another "fun" Sonic game, but a Sonic game that is great on it's own merits and can stand on it's own, and doesn't have any bullshit strings or "catches" attached to them whatsoever. But I don't even think Sonic Team can even manage that anymore. They seemed to finally be grasping something with Colors and Generations...only to throw it away completely with Sonic 4 (which they have not developed in-house, but they still called the shots and gave their stamp of approval on Dimps' work) and Lost World. As game designers, they are simply unqualified to create a game that rises above mediocrity; and in terms of handling the franchise they look like they have no idea what to do with the series anymore, they're just throwing things at the wall (Lost World, Boom sub-series, live-action/CG movie franchise) to see what sticks, all the meanwhile ignoring all of the material created by the Sonic Team of old that did stick or had the potential to if done right.

So by now, as far as I'm concerned, the only thing I want for Sonic to be is to be with a developer who is competent at their job and is passionate for the series as a whole, which I feel hasn't been the case with the current Sonic Team. I want Sonic to be with a significantly changed Sonic Team to be assigned to a new developer entirely, though I'm hesitant to say Sonic Team in it's entirety should be replaced with new staff. Their groups of artists, graphic designers, and music composers have been consistently solid, and the developer also has writers that have the potential to create or have done great stories. But I think their game designers are incompetentl and the top execs who call the shots on how the games nowadays are designed and written are holding this series back from allowing it to receive a great game again. I feel that these people need to get replaced for the sake of this series.