Potential character development that died a long time ago

Even at its very, utmost best, how much quality have we ever seen in a 3D Sonic's story or character development?

I mean quality. Such as that found in a book or a real movie or something.

I've never cared about the story or talking characters. I think real dialogue was always a mistake since it discarded some hugely valuable things, like massive appeal of silent, playful characters, and a plot built up by wordless events that the player had to interpret.

 

Well, as far as plot goes, I would say Sonic Adventure was decent. People remember it for the "Monster of the Week" formula it spawned, but at the time, it was new, and in a way, kind of terrifying that even a character as evil as Robotnik wasn't able to fully control it. Of course it lost all gravitas when they copied that formula for SA2, Heroes, Shadow, '06, and Unleashed, but when SA did it, it was fresh and new, and pretty decent. The story was badly written, but the plot and overall concept was solid. Plus, we got character development in Tails, where he went from always needing Sonic to save him to becoming a capable individual himself, and that arc carried through his entire story for the game.

However, the one character's story that I would say was very well done was E-102's. The use of minimal dialogue and showing not telling really benefited the somber tone of his arc.

As far as actual writing goes, I'd say Unleashed has the best as far as dialogue and writing quality. The plot itself (and the inclusion of Chip) weren't that great, but the telling of the story, if not the story itself, was well done and well-presented.

 

I don't agree with him saying SA2 was the best Sonic story ever nor do I agree with absolutely everything he had to say about Sonic being too perfect nor Unleashed's entire story being bad, but he made some very valid points and was dead-on about the problem of overexposition. These are the things needed when making a good story and a lot of games have and also don't.

Do I personally also think Sonic should have stories in his games? Well, from what I just quoted, yeah I do. It really all depends on how you handle it though, and those videos really do cover that well.

 

I feel better about life knowing Sonic games don't really have an overarching plot

Just a general vague outline of a plot. Like, things happen and time moves forward but there's never really specifics you have to worry about. For the most part the games are self-contained stories and that's just fine. The Saturday Morning Cartoon kind of feel helps the recent games a lot too because it shows Sonic isn't supposed to be this incredibly serious hardass like the Adventure games were starting to turn into (With Sonic 06 being a boiling point)

So long as Sonic is always fast I'll play the games, even if they're awful

 

I think the best bit of storytelling that the Sonic series has done so far was the bit from Sonic & Knuckles from Hidden Palace to Death Egg. Exciting and suspenseful plot that made you feel as though you honestly had to hurry for a damn good reason, Eggman did his first bit of real villainy with a twist (C'mon, who thought during their first playthrough of the game that the Master Emerald was going to be used to fuel the Death Egg? Notice how the weapons and everything were already working during Lava Reef Zone, BEFORE he actually got the Emerald? It was already re-repaired and all set to go without the Emeralds. He went through all this work to get the thing, and used it instead to power a giant anti-Sonic weapon. He knew already that Sonic was most likely going to show up there, and spent an entire game getting a weapon specifically for that fight.), and the whole thing was done without a line of dialogue.

You guys all remember that insurance commercial that made the front page a while back? Had Modern Sonic expressing himself fairly well without saying a word. I'd like to see Sonic Team try an approach like that again. Make the plot as elaborate as you want, but don't allow the characters to actually speak. As long as they can get the point across through their actions, then the plot should work fairly well.

 

This, absolutely this.

The people who bitch about Colors' writing and think SA2 is the best story ever probably think FF7 is some kind of deep masterpiece.

 

See, this is why one should avoid generalised statements.

I prefer SA2 to Colours (though it's far from the best thing ever) and hate FF7 with a passion. (I really like Colours as a game, but I skip the cutscenes when I play it. They're a painful bunch of "standing around and talking".)

I actually think the Sonic Dissected video was pretty much spot on. Whether simple or complex, there are still ways to do story well or badly and the Sonic series has been pretty consistently failing since SA2.

 

I just find it funny people are bitching about plot not only in a Sonic game, but a platformer no less! Now, quickly, tell me how many platformers in the history of the video game industry have had a good story?

The answer is zero. The closest we've gotten to that are some pretty minimalistic and kind of work in that regard but still can't be called good stories in a literary sense.

There's a reason why no one bothers with plot in platforming games, because it's never been done before and it's been shown time and time again that video game companies in general are just either too lazy or flatout incompetent to be able to pull it off. In over 20 years, even! If we haven't been able to do it by now, I don't think it's ever going to happen, ever.

 

Well, in this case, they should stop trying with endless cutscenes altogether. In that respect, I pretty much agree with Kharen. Stuff happens, plot twists and time is not wasted. You don't even need to actually stop the gameplay to tell your story - Sky Sanctuary's peaceful and triumphant, yet awkward and ominous feeling caused by Death Egg rising on the background are elements that don't interrupt the gameplay and, yet, tell a story in a much better way than Sonic Unleashed ever did with its 5 minute-long opening.

 

I really think comments that present "Sonic musn't have a story!" as if it's some kind of hard, scientific cold truth are quite reductory, TBH. There is nothign inherently wrong with the idea of elling a more serious yet fun story with Sonic- I'd argue Unleashed did it pretty well- SEGA just needs to know better how to do it. And to not prioritize it over gameplay.

 

I'll have to disagree with this, while still maintaining my view that it's not necessary in Sonic games.

Jak and Daxter. Brilliant game and one of the best 3D platformers of it's time, nay, of all time. Now, it can be argued that the series' plot didn't really pick up until the second and third games in the series and some people might label those two more action games than platformers; but they play similarly to the first game and the addition of guns didn't really change the formula too much.

While I can't think of any other decent platformers with equally good stories off the top of my head, the fact remains that Jak and Daxter bucked this trend quite considerably. Some people might also reference Ratchet & Clank here, though I don't have much experience with that series so can't really comment on the story.

 

There's only so much story that can be told between a hedgehog and a fat middle aged man whose trying to take over the world. If you try to build a story for something that has never been complicated before a lot of times it just doesn't work. Sonic games are corny enough and make me cringe with most cut scenes. Focusing on game play and level design is what they have been doing much better, and if we have to sacrifice story for that so be it.

 

Genre shouldn't really matter that much. Psychonauts' setting and plot(although very cliche, it flows in a very entertaining way) are what makes it really interesting, while being a semi-decent 3D platformer. Would Psychonauts Milkman level be as entertaining, if it was just one level after the other?

Some genres are better for storytelling obviously, but there's only so much you can do with that if the setting of the game just doesn't lend itself to it. Mario just had to invent a whole new set of characters and galaxies to try to make a story, what will Sonic have to do? Hard-boil it even more? :v:

 

This. I'll excuse myself and use this space to say again that it's all their fault and they wouldn't ever have to play psychologist if their product still stood as one firm brand. As in "this is how it is. This is Sonic". There would be conflicting opinions, of course, but no conflicting mindsets.

 

The problem with Colors' writing isn't in the story though. It's in the stiff, unnatural dialogue and stupid obvious puns. I find the cutscenes painful to watch. When Sonic couldn't say "wisp" I damn near punched the TV, I was so pissed at the writing. Even though the story itself may be considerably better than SA2, the dialogue is far, far worse.