No, Unleashed let you run up great heights, not scale them. As in, climbing platforms. @Ritz: Fucking yes. I loved Starlight Carnival.
Clock Tower and Mazuri Tree, as stated. I'm just jumping into this argument here, but although I believe that Sonic Colors is definitely the better game, it had way less of an impact on me. I enjoyed Unleashed, and I felt that even though the worlds were based on real locations, that's what made them surreal and interesting to play through. I especially thought Empire City was cool, floating in the sky with crazy loops in the pathways. Starlight carnival was a real "wow" moment when I first saw it... then I played it myself, and it was... well, the exact same way as when I saw it. I wasn't controlling any of the cool parts. Sonic Unleashed had these moments too but I still felt more in control, there were more options for what I could do in the scripted sections, and those sections in general had more obstacles. I also didn't like that Sonic Colors was mostly 2D. I mean, it works well in 2D, but it just left me wanting more 3D. It was obviously more 2D than 3D, and although that was for the better in terms of gameplay, I liked playing in 3D in Unleashed. It gave me the feeling of a 3D sonic game much more than Sonic Colors, which felt more like a 2D sonic game with occasional 3D parts, where the controls aren't as good and you're normally running in a straight line anyway. This also made Super Sonic disappointing... the only place I could really play with him in 3D was the 5th act of Starlight Carnival on the giant ship. On top of that, I would have liked more alternate routes in 3D. The 3D experience as a whole was lacking... it might've been better without it at all. Sonic Unleashed at least attempted to be a 3D game.
I appreciate what you're saying about Unleashed doing a better job as a 3D game, but where Colors emphasizes more on the 2D change of pace, Unleashed emphasizes more on running long tracks at a constant speed and a handful of reflex-based challenges, and I think that's less fun than basic 2D platforming and exploration. I'm not saying it isn't fun at all, but I am saying that Unleashed Wii is much more boring to play. I'm sure the HD version is more fun, but I doubt it's better than Colors as a whole.
I guess what pushes me away about Colors is that the gameplay style took such a drastic turn in the opposite direction that I didn't see it coming. Unleashed took Sonic out of the platformer realm by meshing 2D Rush-style gameplay with 3D racing-style gameplay, which seemed to be a first and a big jump towards making Sonic a faster, more unique kind of game for me. Unleashed Wii took it a step further by making the racing-style gameplay the primary focus in day stages, which is I guess why some people are turned away from it (apart from the static image hubs, more night acts, etc). Colors feels a lot more like Mario or Kirby to me, but it's not really what I had in mind for when I heard it would be similar to Unleashed. From an objective point of view, it's a tough call. It does everything a 2D platformer is supposed to do for the most part, but a few niggles (such as the physics not matching up with the levels and lack of overall content) keeps it from being as fun as DKCR or most other 2D platformers to me. I really can't shake that something about the pacing will never feel right to me, even if it wasn't a Sonic game. While it isn't as obvious, DK, Mario, Mega Man, and Kirby all have their own sort of rhythm to them as well, which is something I just don't get in Colors, perhaps with the exception of a few select acts and while using the Wisp powerups. Something just feels wonky about maneuvering a really fast character through narrow block puzzles and slowly-moving platforms. It doesn't feel very natural to control for me. The awkward clips to speedy linear 3D sections don't really help, consistency-wise. It just comes off as another okay platformer to me, but not really a must-buy if you're looking for the best of the best in 2D platforming action/exploration. For example, in the Kirby games (not counting Epic Yarn as I haven't played it), there's secret passageways hidden around ever corner and new abilities everywhere you turn that you can use at anytime. The Mega Man X series has a different kind of flow that's more of a combination of speed, combat, and platforming to create a fulfilling gameplay experience. In DKCR, everything you do has an affect on the environment and you need to be really on your toes to complete some of the faster/more complex challenges. I don't get that same vibe or particular sense of uniqueness, power, or challenge from Colors. Even the "building blocks" concept could have been explored a little more to make them more interesting. There is some exploring, but it doesn't seem to have the same level of depth as some other 2D platformers. It's missing something to make it stand out, and I feel that something may just be Sonic (or more content and more/better Wisp challenges and powerups). I keep wondering what Colors would be like if Sega came up with a new IP to apply it to instead of using Sonic, because that's what it feels more like to me, at least during 2D sections. Of course, if I knew it was going to be completely different from what I had expected gameplay-wise, I probably wouldn't be comparing it to a game like Unleashed to begin with. As to whether Unleashed HD is "better" than Colors as a whole, that's for you to judge, but from my experience I found it to be longer, more varied, and it gave me a more fulfilling gameplay experience. I'm not sure I would recommend it if you're looking for a 2D platformer (especially a slower one with more emphasis on exploring) but I think it does a good job of providing plenty of hours of gameplay, blending platforming with other styles such as racing and beat-em-up. I feel like it also went to greater lengths to utilize the console's capabilities to do things that couldn't be achieved on a Saturn or Dreamcast, making it a better buy if you want a decent showcase of the 360 or PS3's hardware. EDIT: I would like to step down from my "soapbox" and give others a chance to voice their opinions on other matters regarding the game. It seems as though things have gotten quiet after the last several pages of debating and I want people to feel free to reply without feeling overwhelmed by getting in between the opposing parties. I've had my say, now I want to see others talk. Don't be shy, guys (it doesn't have to be about Unleashed either).
ITT: Opinions and wrong opinions. Can't you just...I dunno, LIKE one game better than the other? Without having to write long winded essays about why you don't like X game better than Y game? Or why you think one person's opinion is less valid than your own? You've all made pretty concise well thought out arguments for both sides, but I think you guys might be blowing this out of proportion a taaad bit.
You can, but then you don't get much discussion out of it. Which is what this is supposed to be after all, a discussion forum. :P I apologize if I went too far with my longer/more formal writing style, I guess it's just a habit. Debating about Colors has also helped me learn things that I never really knew about it, both positive and negative, which is I guess part of what makes debating fun for me. EDIT: Oh, and there are no "wrong" opinions, bro.
^ I was just being sarcastic. :P And I realize this is a discussion forum, sure, but I just don't think debating opinions is a very good form of discussion, as it usually leads to flaming, butthurt, and 'wrong' opinions. And to clarify, I'm not saying it's completely worthless discussion, I just think some people simply LIKE one thing better than another, with no real objective reason to. Also I think as fans, our objectivity is a bit skewed by default, so yeah, there's that too. But hey, you guys do what you do, just thought I'd inject some perspective here.
*Shrugs* There may be no such thing as 'wrong' opinions, but there are uninformed opinions, premature opinions, immature opinions, careless opinions, troll opinions, expert opinions, intelligent opinions, you get the idea. No two opinions are alike, and a forum is a grounds for either construction or deconstruction of those opinions. Or dick swinging and raeging, if you will. We can fight, but we should do it like civilized people. And someone might even learn a thing or two about something. As for Colors not being much better than most platformers, well ... the only other platformers I've played recently are Cave Story, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Meat Boy, A.R.E.S., Ratchet & Clank (more a 3D adventure shooter, but adventure and platforming go hand in hand), VVVVVV, and Klonoa 2. What I've found is that Sonic Colors seems to moves much faster than any one of the characters in the previous games, even in just 2D. Also, he has the afforded gameplay elements of six different powerups scattered throughout all the acts and stages, which either slow him down, give him air time, or alter and amplify his natural abilities. The biggest problems I've encountered with the game are the controls of the jump and some of the Wisps (the Spike wisp suffers this the most) and some piddly Acts that don't need to be there. If you took away one act from each world and improved the jumping and 3D movement, the game would've felt even smoother and probably have had better flow without taking out too much critical meat from the game. The only other niggle is somewhat of a half-niggle: sometimes Sonic is too small to see on the screen. This is a problem, but at the same time I enjoy traveling through the massive scope of the 2D perspective sections. I like that Sonic Colors "looks really big" in 2D as well as 3D, and that there's so much nice stuff to look at. In the meantime, the 2D platforming that has Sonic moving through mostly non-linear (or perhaps 'non-racetrack') segments that encourage some wide exploration from either right to left or left to right and up and down. It's the kind of orientation for stage design that I felt has been absent too long from 3D and 2D Sonic games, or at least have been mitigated by too many grind rails, speed boosters, speed ramps, and loop structures. There were barely any loops and hardly any boosters or bumpers in the game compared to something like Rush, and I wouldn't have it much any other way.
I'd like to quote Jack Skellinghog from the Sonic 4: Episode I thread (second one). "There's discussion. Then there's saying the same thing over and over again."
MegaDash, I wasn't talking about Unleashed Wii... I hate Unleashed Wii, to be honest. It's down there with my least favorite games in the series. And yeah, the HD version isn't better either in my opinion, but I just feel like there's SO much more to do in Unleashed HD. I mean, a lot of that is what people hated, but with all the DLC and whatnot there are just tons of stages to play, along with tons of unique missions, hotdog challenges, Chao collecting missions, Ghost Catching missions (from Night of the Werehog), so much stuff that people don't really know about but for me, make the game. I like having a lot of extra things to do in the game, and Unleashed really covers that. It's not a better game, a lot of elements drag it down, but I still enjoy it more.
Yeah, the car looks great and it's got a sweet engine, but cars weren't made for jumping and bouncing. :v:
When I replayed Unleashed, I know I loved the 3D running sequences more than the 2D ones. They didn't feel right, if you weren't just jumping on time. It feels akward, and for example turning around, is a chore. Because first he backtracks, THEN he slooowly turns around, and then you can start running the other way. Colors fixed this, thankfully. And even gave me the bouncing experience that's been long lost since Advance 2. (Not exactly alike, but pretty darn close)
I'm not sure why people are arguing about cutscene/level order. Nobody complained when Mega Man X did it.
Soon, PC2 will come here to point out that MMX came out in '93, so it ain't post '98. :v: I find that particular point to complain kinda silly, though, as well.
Mega Man X had its opening cutscene at the end of the first level. It throws you right into the game first. My point is that there are such early examples of this being done, and nobody has ever had a problem with this progression before. It seems odd that anybody would suddenly start complaining when Sonic does it. But then, I suppose perfectly valid and good decisions are automatically deemed bad if Sonic does them. At least, that's the vibe I've gotten from the past few pages of this thread.
Someone is seriously complaining about an intro/tutorial level? In all honesty, more games should be doing this. Get you right into the action and set up the game you're about to play.
I agree with Chimpo. PC2's gripe with it, though, is more that Unleashed's intro cutscene was so good that for Colors not to follow suit seems "bad"; also because apparently most games do this now, so Sonic's 3D games should also do it.
Since when did games have to become movies first and games second? My biggest gripe with my first run through with Unleashed was that I had to sit through a bunch of boring cutscenes before I actually got to the actual game. Colors doing away with this was a phenomenal. I get to play the game first and have the story fall in through bits and pieces. Unleashed focused on keeping you as far away from the actual game as possible by having animated cut scenes, hub text events, and pointless backtracking. Colors presented you with some minor quip cutscenes, a nice looking map and several stages to plow through.
It's good presentation, Chimpo. A game isn't cool or up-to-date if it doesn't have it. Stop livin' in the past, d00d.
