Music Remastered

I don't like it and I'll tell you why; When I hear the original, the bass is always the prominent driving force of the entire song. Now I went to youtube and listened the entire Sonic 2 soundtrack and I can say that the bass is the foundation of all their songs. Kind of just realizing this now which is probably why the soundtrack is so damn good. I might be biased here because I am a fan of good funky bass riffs. But I feel like first get a talented bass player in there and that will be the foundation of the entire song, for every song.

Once you have an actual bass guitar in there you can manipulate it a bit in an audio program to give it a more crisp roboty/technoy vibe for song like the Death Egg. Some songs having more of a slap to it than others. Just make sure he is playing to a metronome set to the BMP of the song so you can lay down synth instruments later or have other musicians play instruments. So if I had to compromise to one instrument being a real instrument at this point I would say get a bass play to lay down the tracks for everything first.

 

I got an A-Level higher at school(2 years ago) in guitar and bass, so I guess I could do some things. I think we could all use some better drum sounds too but I'm no help with that.

 

Wing Fortress is totally an orchestra song, just listening to the drums on that. Looping drum beats tend to stick out when they sound like a midi. But most things stick out when it sounds like a midi file. Less prominent instruments can be made using a computer. But I think bass and lead instrument should be played on a real instrument. I don't have a problem with a drum machine as long as it doesn't stick out like a drum machine.

 

Hey guys. I'm new on these forums and it's great to finally be contributing (hopefully I will contribute and you will like :v to this amazing project.

Anyway, I have had a go at recreating the music from the "lost" Hidden Palace Zone. The track has the original followed by my recreation (30 seconds of each to see if you all like the sound of it).

Feedback would be appreciated!

Hidden Palace Zone Attempt 1

 

The lead is definitely overpowered and I feel it should have more harmonies. Bass needs to be more distinct and edgier, right now it is kind of gelling in the background ambiance. I think it could use some light crescendos with orchestra drums, and drum roll every 8 measures. I want to feel like doing the waltz when I hear that song by feeling it peak on the first beat everytime. The fake drums definitely need some love.

 

Given that Masato Nakamura was DCT's bass player, there's an awful lot of logic in this. I support this post entirely.

 

Cheers for the advice - I'll work on it some more and make some changes!

 

I was wondering if it would be at all possible to extend and add new arrangement to the Super Sonic Theme. I don't know about anyone else but When you get the Emeralds early on in the game, you have more chances at being Super Sonic and to me that 20 second riff can get highly repetitive on each level from early on.

I was thinking about something around 2 minutes before it loops again. Is anyone bold enough to come up with some original score? Would something like this be even considered for the project? I think it would be something very welcomed as an added feature.

 

I would just suggest making a loop with multiple instrument tracks, then turning combinations on/off for 2-3 reprises.

 

Personally I'm okay with expanding the existing tracks in some way if it's done well. The issue is that we probably couldn't get everyone to agree on that expansion should sound like, and even if it's good it will not be whatever Masato Nakamura would have written. Making the Super Sonic theme a full two minutes would be a huge challenge because the existing material is so short.

 

So I guess we should just get Masato Nakamura to work on it.

 

That's funny, I had it in my head that the Special Stage music was basically the Super Sonic music, only longer and with different instruments. Checking it now, they aren't as similar as I thought.

 

May be a bit too late to revisit this, but on Compsense's Sky Chase (love it btw), I just have one quick nitpick. It's probably already been ironed out or at least picked up by now as I see the post dates, but I'll throw it up for review anyway:

In the final loop, the background strings (presumably a bass or similar instrument) is playing a note that just doesn't sound right at all. It's going down the scale (making 4 steps) slowly at during the 1:39-1:53 mark. The chord it helps form doesn't sound right, specifically because of this background bass instrument.

 

This is very perceptive. In those eight measures the original bass line (which I have taken directly from the VGM) descends C-B-A-G, C-B-A-G. However, Compsense's version is G-C-B-A, G-C-B-A.

What this does is effectively change the harmony. Sky Chase is actually a fascinating and complex piece from a harmonic perspective (and a further testament to the genius of Masato Nakamura). The structure of the song has a lot of call-and-response elements in it, but while this is extremely obvious in the melody, it's actually true of the harmony too!

There are essentially two alternating chord patterns playing simultaneously throughout the song and out of phase with each other. If we take the first part of the song, the upper lines have a chord pattern of G-D-G-D for eight measures, with each chord getting one measure. However, the bass line is a completely separate yet complementary set of chords. It implies an alternating progression of C-G-C-G during those eight bars. This effect makes the whole song sound like a series of ninth chords, and makes the harmonic movement very ambiguous. Take away the lyrical structure that the melody provides and it becomes hard to interpret the function of each chord (I.e., which ones are the tonic chords, which are the dominant chords, etc).

The second part has a chord structure in the upper lines of approximately G-D-Em-D, but the bass line harmony implies the chords C-Bm-Am-G, as mentioned above. Again the bass line takes on a subdominant character with a harmonic call-and-response functionality. However, it is now even more complex because the original G-D-G-D progression from the first part comes back in as a half-note alternation in the tenor line and as a quarter-note alternation in the high bell line. So essentially there's a lot going on harmonically that's very jazzy (listen to all the dissonance in the parts that aren't the melody). The melody takes advantage of notes closely related to both of the chords that are simultaneously implied, so it manages to fit in well.

Again, absolutely brilliant on the part of Masato Nakamura. The reason why Compsense can somewhat get away with the progression he uses is because it (sort of) approximates chords played a fifth above the treble line, whereas the bass line in the original was related to the treble line by mimicking a chord progression a fifth below. It's still reasonably close harmonically, but distinctly different from the original too.

 

Here's an update guys, I have ditched using Mixcraft and instead I use a midi file through Fl Studio using real instruments... I know it's still not enough, but I won't release anything that is of poor quality and taste anymore.

Now, tell me your opinions... Do you guys want a mix of Dreams Come True's Sweet Dreams instrumental version with same tempo as the game version, with different notes here and there with a Sonic 2 style mix?

If I could be guided to how to remaster music, It would be great as I'm trying my best to provide any music for Sonic 2 HD.

If not, then I will suggest some tips on the other topics instead...

Edit: Actually, I might as well give up and look at helping other than creative-wise (Art, Music etc)

 

Yes the same tempo. No tempo is subject to change as it is a remake not a remix. The score should be the same. Also all score that was in the original should be included in the remake.

A guide I could use for you is to think what the original FM sounds are representing. So if the lead in CNZ is a French horn, or if ARZ lead is an Oboe, then that is the best route to go rather than, say slapping a guitar over the lead of SCZ. Most of the backgrounds music FM bass, leads and effects tend to be representing real instruments. But it doesn't mean that electronic sounds are out of the question. I think real instruments would sound really out of place being used in DEZ. Faithful representation is the key to the remasters.

 

Requiring the score from the original to be entirely present in the new version seems a little strict to me. That would disqualify Compsense's beautiful SCZ rendition for instance, because it changes the bass line in the part before the ending section (as discussed above). There are also other differences. For example, it's missing a few pitches present in the original upper part that are used as background harmonic texture. Nobody seems to have mentioned their absence, though. And depending on how literally you mean "the score should be the same", the low brass in the opening measure should be an octave higher as in the original. I realize that we'll probably have optional mixes for each track, and so there can always be one track that copies the VGM note-for-note if that's desired. I'm just looking for some clarification of your statement on what's acceptable in a remake and if something like Compsense's submission counts as a remake or fills a slot for extra arrangements.

As for translating the FM sounds to particular instruments, I would argue that there's no single right answer because the sounds are somewhat vague in the first place. For instance, the range of the melody in ARZ suggests that it could be comfortably played by a flute, oboe, clarinet, trumpet, violin, or soprano saxophone. If you're trying to emulate the same timbre in the original, then I think that the oboe or (muted?) trumpet would be closest, but you could make an argument for soprano sax as well.

You could have two different instruments play the melody in the first and second half of the piece. The original does. Isolate FM Channel 2 on ARZ and you'll hear what I mean. It's subtle, but there all the same.

And to further add to the complexity, there's no reason why the melody can't be played by two or more instruments in unison, which creates a different timbre than any one instrument alone, sounds more interesting to the ear, and might actually represent the original sound better in some cases. Especially if another channel is doubling that line.

Regarding CNZ, I'd be extremely surprised if Masato Nakamura intended the lead to be a horn. I'm sure he knew that horns are rarely used in Big Band jazz. It's "theoretically" playable by a horn, but a horn player would probably slap you silly during the intro riff for trying to make him rapidly leap upward in the interval of a tritone to the high F#. Quick chromatic leaps are tough to play on horns, and the high F# is stretching the range a bit. The timbre of the sound combined with the pitch-bending make it much more likely for the main line to be an alto saxophone, a tenor saxophone, a muted trumpet, or some combination of these. Moveover, the main line is doubled in thirds (a common effect that considerably thickens both the melody and harmony simultaneously), so you have to decide if you want the same instrument playing both lines, or prefer the sound of some combination of instruments between the two lines.

 

It's nothing more than a guide with what I said. But picking and choosing what should be left in or out really comes down to self gratification rather than faithfully remastering. It's been mentioned before that creative flare and having new score added to spice it up and make it more vibrant is part of the music goals. But to take things out really is defeating the object of remastering.

Take Blast Processing's Death Egg music. He's left out a score that runs through the entire tune. He's only left it out because he said he doesn't like it. Doesn't that then class it as a remix rather than a remaster. I think that mix of is fantastic. But doing something like that would almost be like changing the tile set of a zone because you don't like it.

My instrument representation is only a view that I feel would fit. So for me to say that a French Horn for the lead of CNZ should only be taken as a suggestion rather that it being so. Bit like the lead in HTZ. Would it be better as a Harmonica or a Sax. Or OOZ. Should that be an Oboe or a Flute. It doesn't bother me either way. It only matters that it's got the mood and better flare than the original.

As for layering at different octaves. I see no restriction at what it's at. Only that the sound feels that way of the original.

As for adding new score. I've always seen it as a plus to break up the repetition of the originals. But everyone has there own point of view to be heard if something like that is necessary. So I would go with the demographic of the outcome.

As for SCZ. I have not notice because I haven't made an attempt on doing a remake of it and it's not really one of my favourite Sonic tunes. The only thing that bugged me about that was the main lead in some parts. Meh! We can all nip pick over little things.

 

If you'd like my best guesses, I'd say that the HTZ lead is supposed to be a harmonica and the OOZ lead is supposed to be an Armenian duduk. Those instruments seems most consistent with both the timbre and the style being conveyed. To me a sax makes more sense with CNZ than HTZ and flute and oboe are used several other places to good effect, so choosing an actual Middle-Eastern instrument would really set OOZ apart and bring out the intended style.

 

nice to see this still going. I wish to resubmit my Casino Night if it's not too much bother?

I'm working with Reason 4 with a few new samples, hope you guys enjoy.

Appears I'm not allowed to upload attachments at the moment