That's a...Chaos Emerald!

Fred · Jan 29, 2010

Tweaker said:

Okay, I think you guys are missing the point. This is not about "theories" regarding the Chaos Emeralds; this is what the game's Japanese manual actually said, which is the closest thing to series story canon there is outside of observation when it comes to the first three games. They're certainly more official than the contrived bullshit from the US manual, anyway.

So the debate is not really what happened—the manual says what happened. The discussion should be about whether or not this seems like a plausible conclusion to reach, as well as if the idea of the Emeralds powering up around the Master Emerald is plausible. This fanfiction fanwankery has absolutely no basis in anything and should be omitted from the discussion.
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BUT MAYBE THOSE CHAOS EMERALDS THAT I BROUGHT BACK WITH ME HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING

The KKM · Jan 29, 2010

The way I see it, it is simply being constantly retcon'd.

Sonic 1- 6 emeralds.

Sonic 2- 7 emeralds

Sonic 3K- 7 emeralds, BUT WAIT KNUCKLES AHS ALWAYS BEEN THEIR GUARDIAN how did they appear on sonic 1 SHUSH. Super Emeralds were retcon'd out of history as they only existed for the purposes of connecting the two games. Either that or they are a reaction to the Master Emerald.

Sonic CD- Time Stones lol

Sonic Championship- 8 emeralds

Sonic Adventure- 7 emeralds. "but in the past they are huge" DON'T THINK ON IT. Chaos is their God

Sonic Adventure 2- 7 emeralds, a giant space cannon in space was built using them as an engine

Sonic Heroes- 7 emeralds

Shadow the Hedgehog- 7 emeralds, an ancient alien has wanted them ever since 4000 years ago

Sonic Battle- 7 emeralds broken into pieces, ancient robots eat them

Sonic Riders 1 and 2- 7 emeralds that everyone seems to find easily

Sonic 2006- 7 Deus ex Machina that are laying around and make people come to life

Sonic Unleashed- remember when we said Chaos was their god well that's bull they are actually powered by gaia whom we never heard anything of and they have these huge temples that we never heard anything of.

It seems to me this is simply too inconsistent, so I follow what ends up the majority. Knuckles was never the guardian of the Chaos Emeralds, just the Master Emerald, but when Sonic comes in with the emeralds his people had used before gets them. There are 7 emeralds, and a Master Emerald. If we want a bit of that old school flair, the Gray Emerald controls all. Chaos is a mutated Chao, and the Emeralds are actually fuelled by Gaia. They love to scatter around to magically appear when people need them. THE END :D

SonikkuForever · Jan 29, 2010

Wait, why are we trying to make sense of Sonic again?

Elratauru · Jan 29, 2010

Koi Kami Mauro said:

The way I see it, it is simply being constantly retcon'd.

It seems to me this is simply too inconsistent, so I follow what ends up the majority. Knuckles was never the guardian of the Chaos Emeralds, just the Master Emerald, but when Sonic comes in with the emeralds his people had used before gets them. There are 7 emeralds, and a Master Emerald. If we want a bit of that old school flair, the Gray Emerald controls all. Chaos is a mutated Chao, and the Emeralds are actually fuelled by Gaia. They love to scatter around to magically appear when people need them. THE END :D
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You forgot about 3D blast, but yeah. That's true.

Neoblast · Jan 29, 2010

Hidden palace is empty until sonic takes the emeralds there and then they turn super emeralds...
Those emeralds ( the ones sonic got after being stolen by knuckles ) are the same knuckles steal in the beggining of sonic 3, hence the ones in sonic 2, that might have been in angel island in ancient times but after that they scattered all over mobius. So... I think it's one set...
Knuckles probably put them in special stages after stealing them...

Enzo Aquarius · Jan 29, 2010

How about I add more of a damper to your theories?

Try including Chaos Emerald theories from the Sonic the Hedgehog comic in your theories. I guarantee, your brain will explode.

RGamer2009 · Jan 29, 2010

Enzo Aquarius said:

How about I add more of a damper to your theories?

Try including Chaos Emerald theories from the Sonic the Hedgehog comic in your theories. I guarantee, your brain will explode.
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You mean the one stating that every dimension has a separate set of Chaos Emeralds?!

PLEASE GOD NO.

It is SIMPLE guys. 1 set of Emeralds warps around to different locations.

WHY? Because every time the emeralds are together, they split apart again.

1st to other dimensions (As seen on the Genesis Games) and later in random places on Earth.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?!

Afti · Jan 29, 2010

The Chaos Emeralds are plot devices; their properties are whatever is needed at the time while maintaining DRAMA.

/thread

BlackHole · Jan 29, 2010

...I got in trouble for coming up with a bloody theory concerning the Chaos Emeralds, yet now we have a theory full of them!? (Albeit not actually meant to be one for theories but for what the Japanese Manual said about another set of Chaos Emeralds)

Here, I'll drag this from another topic:

Chaos Emeralds Theory said:

For millions of years, 8 Emeralds traveled the universe, passing from planet to planet. Each emerald lay on a planet until said planets death, upon which the emerald would be flung into space and onto a new planet. One day, seven of those emeralds landed upon a planet belonging to a race called the Black Arms. They found all seven emeralds, and put them in the same area. Due to the energies building up over the time they were apart, they cause a Chaos Blast effect, hitting future leader Black Doom, providing his genetics Chaos Energy. Eventually, with an experiment gone wrong, the home planet prematurely detonated. Black Doom and others of the Black Arms Race had developed a ship that withstood the explosion, and was flung into outer space*. They were then flung in the same general direction towards the planet Earth. (Shadow the Hedgehog - How do the Black Arms know of the Chaos Emeralds?)

The 8th Emerald also rested on Earth by chance, and had been given an Altar by the creatures of this planet. The emeralds landed in different areas of the planet, some even flying straight past Earth, but being thrown back by the gravity of Venus. Several tribes discovered the emeralds and were mesmerized by the jewels, building temples for them, which stored enough energy to recharge them if need be. (Sonic Adventure - The Master Emerald's Altar) (Sonic Unleashed - Where did the Chaos Emerald Temples come from? And why so far apart?)

However, a greedy tribe, which held the 8th Emerald, began to attack the other tribes and steal the emeralds, placing them with the 8th Emerald. This tribe eventually died out from a plague, and the emeralds energies affected the nearby animals, evolving them faster, with the most prominent being the Echidna race which split into separate tribes. The island had drifted apart from the others due to continental drift. Due to the presence of the Emeralds in this timeline (and not ours), the Earth's landmass developed somewhat differently, leading to that seen in Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Unleashed. (Sonic the Hedgehog's World - Why is the landmass different to ours?) The echidnas eventually begun to war over the emeralds, one tribe being pulled into another dimension. The Emeralds had caused the evolution of certain creatures, one of which touched the 8th Emerald during a powerful storm. The 8th Emerald relayed it's access energy into the creature, and, with the presence of so much water, became an odd looking creature, which, with it's newfound intelligence, became a guardian to the Emeralds. Cue the events seen in Sonic Adventure - Past, with the Echidnas nearly killed off. (Sonic the Hedgehog's World - Where did the humanoid animals come from?) (Sonic Adventure Past - If Chaos was once a Chao, why is he so different?)

The Emeralds were then hidden in caves by the remaining Echidnas on a large mass of land connected to the larger island, and bewitched by a Priest to put anyone whom entered through a set of rotating mazes, with traps that ejected the person if they touched them. However, the Echidnas saw the dangers of the seven being too close, and so hid the seventh emerald on a landmass connected to the west. The priest set a different task for this emerald, a half pipe where the person had to collect crystallized Chaos Energy (rings) while avoiding bombs placed by the priest, and also enchanted the part of the island to remove any other Emeralds brought to it and place them into other portions of the task. (Sonic 2 - Where do the Emeralds go if not stolen ala Sonic 3?) Realizing the danger they still possessed, he also cast an enchantment on them to hide in a task similar to the half pipe every so often (Hence the appearance in Sonic Advance 1, 2, 3, Sonic Rush and Sonic Heroes), to allow some chance for heroes to retrieve the Emeralds from their opponents. (Rings - Why are they all over the place?) (Chaos Emeralds - Why do they repeatedly enter the Special Stages?)

Due to the lack Chaos Emeralds to absorb the energy, the landmass eventually gained too much Chaos Energy and released it in a way that it lifted the island, leaving the two areas containing the Chaos Emeralds because the Emeralds absorbed the energies before it could gather in the area (Sonic the Hegdehog's World - Was Angel Island connected to South and Westside Island?). The echidnas then created seven synthetic emeralds in an attempt to quell the island back onto the Earth, but realised that they weren't as effective in relocating the energy, instead storing it within themselves and grew more powerful then the Chaos Emeralds themselves, but had a one-use issue, where upon if the energy was used by a physical body, the Emeralds would lose all power and shatter (Sonic 3 and Knuckles after - Where did the Super Emeralds go?). They hid them in a Hidden Palace, christening them Super Emeralds, and put the last Gizoid they had in to protect them. The priest then had a vision of a Gold Hedgehog fighting an Echidna and a giant metal being, and had the battle between the gold hedgehog and the metal being put into a mosaic and mounted onto the wall for future generations reference. (Sonic 3 - Where did the Super Emeralds and the mosaic come from?)

The Chaos Emeralds, meanwhile, had begun to release their own energies into the planet, again evolving the creatures at an extraordinary rate. The animals then began to call the planet Mobius, its meaning Planet to their tongue (Sonic the Hedgehog's World - Why was it called Mobius?). Eventually, this area became known as the Bermuda Triangle (of this timeline). Several disappearances were caused by the Chaos Energies messing up the planes and ships, leading to crashes on the two Islands, with the islands themselves being christened South and West Side Island. These humans eventually built cities, with G.U.N bases coming in later and teaching the animals Human Languages, though they still referred to the planet as Mobius. South Island's Base had several Scientists analyse the islands for the source of this odd radiation, hoping for an infinite energy source. During the search, G.U.N designated areas of South Island as 'Zones' so they could say which ones they had checked and which ones required checking. (The Islands - Where did the Human Cities come from?) (G.U.N. - How did they know of the Chaos Emeralds?) (Sonic the Hedgehog's World - Why are they called Example Ova Zone?)

A scientist known as Professor Gerald Robotnik was touring the islands after finding ruins that pointed to them. He was approached by the General of the G.U.N base on South Island for a request by the president for a way to live forever. Gerald Refused until a letter from one of his sons told him that his granddaughter, Maria Robotnik, had contracted NIDS from a blood pack during an operation (Sonic Adventure 2 - Backstory). He agreed, but during the flight to a Space Colony in the works known as the ARK, the shuttle he was being transported in crashed upon a floating island, killing all but him. He was taken in by the remaining Knuckles Tribe Members, which had begun to dwindle in population now. He used what he could to research the ruins, taking particular interest in the ruins known as the Hidden Palace, and decided to base his immortal creature upon a mosaic he found, due to their longitivity compared to other species (Hedgehogs being more absorbant with the Chaos Energy). He discovered the Gizoid guardian, which had long since ran out of power, and took it with him when the Echidnas fashioned a craft to get him back to South Island. In return, he was told not to tell anyone of this experience, as G.U.N would obviously wish to locate the flying island and convert it into a base. He agreed, and was sent to South Island, in which he claimed he ended upon an island and had fashioned the craft himself. Due to his intellect and perfect record, he was believed, and was promptly sent in another shuttle to the ARK, though some people doubted this. (Sonic Battle - Shadow/Emerl Backstory) (Professor Gerald - Why no mention of Angel Island when he saw the mosaic?)

Eventually, the artificial rocket of the Black Arms, now greatly resembling a comet, caught up with the Emeralds and the leader, Black Doom, asked the Professor to create a creature to locate the Emeralds for them, providing his D.N.A for Project: Shadow. Cue the events seen in the Hedgehog and Sonic Adventure 2 - Past.

Fifty Years Later, a scientist, known because of his direct relation to Gerald Robotnik, had notes from his grandfather upon Project: Shadow, along with a genetic sample, and noticed a connection between the notes of an odd energy in the genetics and the odd radiation the G.U.N base was looking for. He learned that his grandfather had been told of seven Emeralds that produced more power than the genetic sample given, and had developed a creature to locate these emeralds (Dr. Robotnik - How did he know of the Chaos Emeralds?).

However, the scientist was only interested in the power levels the energy in the genetic samples had shown, and desired the emeralds for his own purposes. He then began to build robotic casts, but was unable to find an energy source that wouldn't run out so quickly. He then tried a living specimen, and to his amazement, it worked for much longer than his previous tests, up until the animal inside had died. He then built an army and enslaved the creatures, then attacked the G.U.N base, causing G.U.N evacuate, along with the city. The scientist then rechristened the base as the Scrap Brain Zone, having grown into the habit of G.U.N naming the different areas of the island as a Zone, and removed all traces of G.U.N inhabitance. (Dr. Robotnik - Why use animals and not another, more avalible power source?) (Sonic 1 - If G.U.N inhabited South Island, where is their emblem?)

One day, the son of a Hedgehog couple who had moved to Christmas Island returned to his parent homeland to visit some relatives of his. Upon seeing robots attacking his favourite “Zone” of the island, known to most as the Green Hill Zone, he destroyed them, and took it upon himself to stop the mad scientist, known as Dr. Ivo Robotnik. The hedgehog had developed a skill to run at incredible speed, fuelled by Chaos Energy that the Hedgehogs had a natural affinity to store, and used it to his advantage. The scientist had come to collect a capsule of creatures his army had caught, and was confronted. Using what little he had for direct combat, due to the thought that his army was enough, he engaged the hedgehog and lost, with which the hedgehog released his friends. In order to keep any remaining relatives safe, the hedgehog only revealed his first name, Sonic. Robotnik, not knowing his opponent's second name, dubbed him "Sonic the Hedgehog", which eventually became his most famous alibi.
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* Meant a subnote suggesting sabotage from Black Doom, because let's face it, that git's just insane.

If I were to continue, I'd go on to say the Super Emeralds were the Emeralds the Japanese Manual refered to, with a Safety Mechanism activating when Angel Island was forced down into the water which removed the Super Emerald's Energy and hid both the energy and Super Emeralds in the Special Stages. Robotnik says Sonic stole them and shrunk them with his evil magic, which Knuckles believed due to lack of knowledge on the outside world, blahblahblah, when Sonic takes the Chaos Emeralds into the Hidden Palace, they deactivate the Safety Mechanism and return the Emeralds, but fail to return the energy and Sonic is forced to go into the Special Stages and retrieve the energy. As said in the above, Sonic uses the Super Emerald's energy to fight Robotnik in the Robotnik-Proclaimed 'Doomsday Zone', where upon they shatter...Yeah, I know, bad theory but hey, it's better then others out there.
[/fanwank]

0r4ng3 · Jan 29, 2010

Afti said:

The Chaos Emeralds are plot devices; their properties are whatever is needed at the time while maintaining DRAMA.

/thread
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Once I had this heated discussion with some friend of mine about how and why the emeralds warped to special stages or not, when and how and to diffferent places at that. I was trying to convince him that it was just a plot device and their properties changed just like Sonic's anatomy did but the guy was too stubborn and wouldn't budge. So I just screamed maybe they feel like it. The guy didn't get that I was tired of the conversation altogether and proposed the emeralds had a will of their own. Then we got into another heated discussion as to why they'd decide things like this but I really liked the idea that they were conscious of their behaviour. I dunno, magical stones.

Søda the Junker · Jan 29, 2010

I liked the deal they included in Sonic 3 and in Adventure. Being part of the shrine of the master emerald makes much more sense, anything else really just convoluted it.

also, How about those Time Stones and Precious Stones?

Overlord · Jan 29, 2010

jasonchrist said:

Also keep in mind that the floating island would not be floating if Knuckles emeralds were missing.
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Isn't it the Master Emerald that makes it float, rather than the other emeralds? The Island didn't have any major gravity issues until Robotnik made his move in Hidden Palace.

And for the record, I always thought it was what Aquaslash said - one set that just scatters after the end of every game (ie they're usable for a while then they just disappear to their new locations). Would make sense, considering they're essentially Dragon Balls anyway, minus an ability to wish for Bulma's panties =P

BlackHole · Jan 29, 2010

Overlord said:

jasonchrist said:

Also keep in mind that the floating island would not be floating if Knuckles emeralds were missing.
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Isn't it the Master Emerald that makes it float, rather than the other emeralds? The Island didn't have any major gravity issues until Robotnik made his move in Hidden Palace.
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Actually, the Island was forced into the ocean when the Death Egg crashed into it. Hence why it's in the ocean at the start, and lets not forget the Emeralds disappeared when Robotnik arrived, therefore there maybe some connection.

Azu · Jan 29, 2010

Søda the Junker said:

I liked the deal they included in Sonic 3 and in Adventure. Being part of the shrine of the master emerald makes much more sense, anything else really just convoluted it.

also, How about those Time Stones and Precious Stones?
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The Precious Stones are just for whats-her-name's world. So, I doubt they reallty matter. Not sure about the Time Stone.

Shadix · Jan 29, 2010

Frozen Nitrogen said:

Shadix said:

As much as I want there to be an official explaination for this, I'm still a proponent that SA-onwards are in a different continuity and that trying to draw connections to the original games isn't really plausible.
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Doesn't that strike you as a little intellectually lazy?
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Actually no. I'm just taking this subject from a feasible developers perspective, and given the data and elements of SAs continuity, no direct proof exists that the developers original intent was to connect that game to the original series besides these wanky manual additions. I would believe this full-heartedly if Sonic Adventure and subsequent games didn't have so many inconsistencies.

Edit: Also, that Chaos Emerald Theory is hilarious.

Overlord · Jan 29, 2010

BlackHole said:

Overlord said:

jasonchrist said:

Also keep in mind that the floating island would not be floating if Knuckles emeralds were missing.
Click to expand...

Isn't it the Master Emerald that makes it float, rather than the other emeralds? The Island didn't have any major gravity issues until Robotnik made his move in Hidden Palace.
Click to expand...

Actually, the Island was forced into the ocean when the Death Egg crashed into it. Hence why it's in the ocean at the start, and lets not forget the Emeralds disappeared when Robotnik arrived, therefore there maybe some connection.
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OK, so there's a limit as to how much weight it can hold up, but I'm more thinking of the amount of wobble the Floating Island has after he takes the Master Emerald. Take a look in Sky Sanctuary.

0r4ng3 · Jan 29, 2010

I don't think Sonic Team even cared about consistency within the classics. Six emeralds to seven (and eight), then the Death Egg retcon from S2 to S3, then this whole mix up with the emeralds, amongst others (like Sonic's age for example). Sonic Adventure's inconsistencies to me are equivalent to these ones. I tend to put most Sonic Team's games as one continuity and then add everything else that doesn't contradict them too much.

BlackHole · Jan 29, 2010

Overlord said:

BlackHole said:

Overlord said:

jasonchrist said:

Also keep in mind that the floating island would not be floating if Knuckles emeralds were missing.
Click to expand...

Isn't it the Master Emerald that makes it float, rather than the other emeralds? The Island didn't have any major gravity issues until Robotnik made his move in Hidden Palace.
Click to expand...

Actually, the Island was forced into the ocean when the Death Egg crashed into it. Hence why it's in the ocean at the start, and lets not forget the Emeralds disappeared when Robotnik arrived, therefore there maybe some connection.
Click to expand...

OK, so there's a limit as to how much weight it can hold up, but I'm more thinking of the amount of wobble the Floating Island has after he takes the Master Emerald. Take a look in Sky Sanctuary.
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I'm well aware of the island's tilting, but then if the Master Emerald was the sole power source, then the island would've most likely sunk as soon as the Emerald was taken, even with residual energy, which probably wouldn't have held out as long as it did. All I'm trying saying is perhaps the Chaos Emeralds were a sort of backup system for if the Master Emerald is taken, where they'd hold the Island up as long as possible, until the Guardian managed to retrieve the Master Emerald. This is kinda shown in Sky Sanctuary, when Knuckles either fails and the Master Emerald is lost, in which the island falls, or he succeeds and the island stays aloft.

RedStripedShoes · Jan 30, 2010

Every Sonic The Hedgehog game takes place within a set of parallel dimensions relatively close to one another. Each game features one incarnation of Sonic the Hedgehog in one of those dimensions. No incarnation of Sonic has ever collected/used the Chaos Emeralds more than once. When Sonic is finished with the Chaos Emeralds, they leave his dimension forever, and travel to another dimension with one of his alternate dimension counterparts, ready to be used for the next game. The only exception is Sonic 3 & Knuckles, where the Emeralds finally settle in that dimension's Angel Island for eternity.

Which is basically sci-fi gobbledygook for "Every game is in its own closed world, except for Sonic 2/3/K."

Evidence (AKA reasons why this insane fan theory should be adopted into canon):
Each adventure is more or less a carbon copy of the last; same hero, same villain, same planet in danger.
The world never remains truly consistent from game to game, and yet characters never age. In fact, they sometimes age backwards (Charmy).
SEGA doesn't need to bend over backwards to make future games work with this story; it already works.
It explains so much about Sonic's universe, except the Chaos Emeralds, which keep their mystique intact.
A much-needed overhaul of Sonic's character would be instantly justified in-universe.

Aquaslash · Jan 30, 2010

A lot of this is answered in Chaos Zero's official profile on Sonic Channel.

It states that the Chaos Emeralds are called such because of the drama they caused what became Angel Island. Also the island floats due to being charged by the energy of the M.E. when Chaos went postal.

As far as the Super Emeralds, I reckon it was a one time deal. Hyper Sonic used up all their energy on the first activation, so they can't become the Super Emeralds again.

That's a...Chaos Emerald!

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