Sonic 3 & Knuckles; no-spindash?

Lolz, believe it or not, I just played S&K on Sonic Mega Collection for the GC...

and I, with Sonic got to Lava Reef Zone with NO spindash.

The trick? Stay as high as possible in the level. If a path takes you up..TAKE IT. The higher paths usually don't have anything that requires the Spindash.

In Flying Battery Zone Act 1, I didn't need the Spindash until one point where you have to run up small ramps to get on those moving ball things.

I thought I had messed up, like HFZ did. But then it occurred to me that I had the FLAME SHIELD on at that moment.

So thats how I beat that. I also beat Act 2 with minimal help needed, but that ending part with the rising platform that can squish you is really scary now.

SandPolis was a piece of cake without the Spindash, due to most things being activated by button switches.

Then came Lava Reef. I was so mad when I found out the 1st part requires a Spindash. SO MAD.

I somehow got Tails to do a Spindash without my input, which broke down the wall. Don't ask me how.

And basically it all ended when I found a elevator that moves you down. NOOOOOO.

I have a theory though. If someone could get all the Emeralds before hitting Lava Reef Zone (I'm sure that's very possible), then hitting all walls would be easy. like Knux. But then again there are those spinners...

If someone can find a route in Lava Reef that Sonic can take and only have to smash walls/hit buttons instead of activating elevators, it might be possible to beat Lava Reef without the SpinDash.

Thats my findings on this. Also Sonic 3 is simply not possible with anyone without the Spindash.

 

I don't see any problem with using spin dash. But I do find however, that I play better without it. Being my usually unlucky self in video games, when ever I use spin Dash, I usually collide with a bombardment spikes, badniks and traps. I find it easier. This is how I escape with 300 or higher rings in some areas. as they say, slow and steady wins the race. And trust me it DOES when you see the score for 300 rings compared to a relatively fast time. But I don't think it ruined it. Spin Dash can be important if you have no gained speed and you need to get out of an area quickly. Like when you are just about to get hit by from a projectile right above you.

 

Hear Hear! Glad so many people are realizing the brokeness of Spin Dash.

...though as far as I can recall, it IS possible to move the lifts in Lava Reef by rolling onto them (not spindashing). Am I...wrong? I'd check it out myself if I wasn't @ work

 

You mean with the face thingy that Knuckles can't reach via jumping so Knuckles goes up instead? If so, that IS possible to go through with Knuckles, using the spinning thing to gain the height needed to hit it. Problem is it's a long process.

 

..Really? I'll give it a shot.

I'll try this too. I didn't know rolling could activate certain traps where it seems the Spindash is needed.

I'll try both and tell you guys what I find.

 

I was messing around in MGZ2, but could not seem to get the blue spinners to do anything no matter what angle I rolled at it. I even got a time over trying different things. Still the possibility warrants investigation....

 

Retried the thing I posted about, seeing as it's been a while since I used that method. It does work as I mentioned, just that controlling the spinning top thing and trying to not mess it up THREE times (since jumping gets rid of it) is the hard/long part. If I wasn't on the wii I'd post a screenshot.

 

Wouldn't it be possible to modify the spindash so that it does not do anything other than get past those various points in the levels? The spindash code is somewhat similar to the Sonic 2 spindash code, just with different locations and a few other differences. If the part of the spindash code that provides the burst of speed is removed, I believe that the spindash could be still used for passing these obstacles without giving the advantage normally given by spindashing. I think all of these obstacles that require spindashing are not effected by the speed burst, but only by the spindash action, and so in theory, by modifying the spindash, it could be kept in the game to circumvent the obstacles, but not give the speed burst.

This is all from a cursory glance at the code, however, so I could very well be wrong, but it is worth a try.

 

I know and love my spindash dearly, which is why I've always found Sonic 1 to be a bitch of a game in comparison. By the way in that Sonic and Knuckles no spin dash/sheilds rom, I just obtained a fire shild via the Orb Bonus stage. Is there a way you could take those out as well?

 

So basically what you're saying is, make the spindash spin, but not actually go anywhere? I think that's a good idea, based on the things in the quoted post. Not like those things require you to zoom off, just to CHARGE the spindash.

 

Exactly what I'm thinking. It would let you play through the entire game without using the spindash, but still being able to pass the obstacles that require it. I'll play around with the code later and see if I can get anywhere with the concept.

 

What I'd like to see, is Sonic 2 and 3 with the Super Peelout move replacing the Super Spindash (even if it's just a quick mod with no new animation frames added).

That way, it will take some time to charge and leave you vulnerable in the meantime, so it won't be as cheap.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but where is the shame in using the spindash only at the points where it's absolutely necessary? I do something similar when I play Gunstar Heroes with no weapons; I only grab a weapon when a boss comes up that out of range of your punches/kicks, and promptly game over after the fight to lose the gun.

That said, I never thought of the spindash as totally cheap or broken, but I do like the idea of attempting to play without it, since after beating the game a bazillion times it's got-I'm stupid-ten a little old. =P

EDIT: Why is it that the board automatically filters 'got-I'm stupid-ten' into 'got'? (I managed to type got-I'm stupid-ten through clever use of bold tags in the middle of the word.)

 

This really reminds me of doing Metroid Prime without the boost ball. For those that haven't played it, that game has devices that normally require what is essentially a spin-dash to move platforms, open doors etc. but people have found various ways to activate them without boosting. Though the game mechanics here are more limited in scope so are the challenges, so hopefully someone can do this. I may try it myself, I've been looking for a challenge since my low ring / low score run on Sonic 1 (end result 5200/26 or 4800/27, you have to make a choice in MZ)

 

Am I the only one who finds the spin dash to be extremely useful to the point where it's simply not fun to play Sonic 1 any more? >_>

 

Since I played Sonic 1 AFTER Sonic 2 I would say that your opinion is similar to mine.

 

Just an update from playing with the code, I have been able to disable the "dash" part of the Spindash. However, this leads to a problem at the very beginning of Lava Reef for Sonic (there are probably more places with problems, but this is one I can think of off the top of my head). Also, when the game is combined with Sonic 3, Spindash is normal for Tails, but the modified no dash Spindash effects Knuckles and Sonic, which leads me to believe that Tails pulls from a different subroutine for Spindash than Sonic and Knuckles. Hopefully, the subroutine is in the S&K asm. I'll try to play with it today and through the week to see if I can get any farther

EDIT: Also, the Angel Island Opening for Sonic is broken.

 

I found an easier way to use it: Super Peel Out, press down. Most people probably know that already, so I'm likely wasting my time.

 

Spindash never really bugged me or broke anything for me. I dare say anyone who relies on it too much is playing the game wrong. Only time I've ever really seen rampant spindash abuse was SA1 and SA2. In fact, unless I'm stuck in an area where I can't get any speed at all, spindash is usually out of mine. I usually just gain speed and if I'm feeling like it, hold down, similar to Sonic 1.

Pah, you Sonic Fans and never know what you want