We definitely welcome your ideas, get em' out there! I see a lot of very good ideas too, but I think a lot of us would agree that this project should be thought of as more than a just a fangame. As for organization, Phoebius did a splendid job of setting up the topics. However, I must suggest that there should be more of them.. such as "Bonus Stage", "Special Stage" and perhaps a "Title cards/Fonts" topic.
Maybe also a general objects and badniks topic. We need more pixel artists who can make levels, I don't think I have really seen any new level art other than the edits to mine since the move to Sonic Retro.
I consider myself to be a good pixel artist.. I must say that it is very time consuming and often times frustrating. I'll see what I can do. Also, your level art for the Tropical Zone was near perfect when we first moved here. I am wanting so badly for the original art to remain the same, with only minor edits. I'll go ahead and set up those topics, we need them.
I'm not particularly interested in giving ideas on this project. Also, that isn't *quite* what I was getting at with my last post... There's no structural hierarchy and no clearly defined goals. Development isn't gonna go anywhere until you all step back a bit and get all the basics down, independent of whatever is going on in each topic.
You know what? People like you aren't helping. I think we all know at this point that this project needs a clear direction and some solid management, but you whining about it and doing absolutely nothing to contribute is useless and only serves to agitate people. If you aren't willing to help and your sole purpose is to come in here and bitch about how everyone else is being inadequate, then just don't post.
Or, alternatively, I can continue this line of conversation because I feel it is important, and I can respond based on what the project's leaders say and want to do, and ignore backseat moderation of my opinions by people who don't ultimately make those decisions. Is that reasonable?
It's passable based on a "skimming by the rules" sort of viewpoint, but it really doesn't give any constructive suggestions that haven't been brought up already. At this point, this project needs a lot more action and a lot less talk. Do you want to help improve the structure of the project? Try helping coordinate or diffuse feedback in a logical, coherent sense so people don't go back and forth arguing about what "should" be in the game. Write up some plans for organization that may help the Project Leaders organize things better. Do something! Seriously—if the problem is with the lack of activity or coordination on part of the project leaders, how is telling them something they already know helping? I want to know this. The only way to really help is to try and pick up the slack where others are lacking. Otherwise, we're just endlessly going in circles.
I don't want to see this project die, I love the progress you've all made on it. I would love to pitch in and help with a few things if it's needed. I suggest working on Sonic's sprite sheet for a bit though. The only distinctly different trait about it is the head and the rest is a pasted on Sonic 3 base.
Thank you for being reasonable about it. I don't appreciate the implication that I'm needlessly whining, that's all. You put forth some good suggestions, and if BJCharles and the others are willing I wouldn't mind putting my money where my mouth is, so to speak. I won't however presume to step in unless I know what whatever work I do is actually wanted. I'll just have to wait and see I guess.
It worked for every game since Knuckles' Chaotix, didn't it? 1) Very good point. 2) I kind of like the name, but definitely not for the circus zone, I agree. It's more of a final-boss-level type name, you know?
Its also the name of a very mediocre Redhot Chilli Peppers album so I would rather we didn't use it unless you could alter it a bit (although probably best not to do that now, we have enough zone names for the moment)
What..? Sonic Adventure 1 didn't have it; you played as the character you chose from the beginning straight through to the end. Sonic Adventure 2 *did* have it, and it was widely disliked. In Sonic Heroes you selected a team and you played as that same team in every level until you reached the end. Shadow I cannot comment on as I haven't played it, but I imagine that you don't play as characters other than the titular hedgehog. Sonic '06 forced you to play as the "buddy" characters from time to time is what I've heard, and it was a source of complaints. See where I'm going with this? If not, let's toss handhelds into this as well: In Sonic Pocket Adventure, I am *pretty sure* that you play as the character you chose straight through to the end. I haven't played it, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here. In Sonic Advance 1 you play as the character you chose straight through to the end. In Sonic Advance 2 you play as the character you chose straight through to the end. In Sonic Advance 3 you choose a team between levels, I believe? My memory of this game is rusty and I'm at my parents' place so I don't have any handheld gaming consoles handy; someone care to fill me in? Sonic Rush you play as the character you chose straight through to the end. Sonic Rush Adventure I cannot comment on as I haven't played it, but I believe that it is the same as Rush. In addition, it's just a bad design choice to force a gameplay style on a player; as I said in my original post, what if I really enjoy playing as Sonic, but I don't like playing as Knuckles? Why should I be forced to play as a character I don't like. Going into another hypothetical - and this is a major hypothetical for several reasons - what if we included Amy? Thundertimi has made it clear in several topics that he really doesn't like her, and there are sure to be more like him. Why should we force him to play as a character he hates? Granted, this is extremely unlikely as last I knew the staff was against putting her in the game, but I bring it up only for the sake of proving my point. Do you understand my point now?
People arguing that Amy shouldn't be in the game because she's a Sonic recolor makes me sad >: I think it would be a really great addition; Amy could be the Hard Mode of this game. I had a lot of fun playing as her in Sonic Advance 1 because she couldn't spin and it made the game harder. OK, asking her to be playable is maybe a little too much, but at least make her being kidnapped by Metal Sonic like in Sonic CD! And she doesn't have to be a recolor. We can make her design look good AND retro-ish. That's exactly what I did a few weeks ago: Her spikes are roundish, which differs from Sonic, she has this side hair that looks like her new design. I re-did her clothes because her design had some god-awful colors that doesn't match at all. And I did some stylish boots for her. It looks retro-ish, good, and doesn't look so much like a Sonic recolor, right guys? ...Right? Well, I don't know since I'm the one who created it, I need opinions from others >: Also, before I knew Sonic 4 (now named Sonic Retro) project, I went also with a Sonic 4 idea. One of the mid-bosses would be two Silver Sonics (or Mecha Sonics) which has the same abilities and would attack together. But when you would finally finish them, Metal Sonic appears and does that awesome boost dash from Sonic CD. You evade the attack, but you fall down to Act 2, and when you fall down, Metal Sonic doesn't stop and crushes the other two defeated Mecha Sonics.
<!--quoteo(post=250290:date=Nov 26 2008, 01:22 PM:name=Rave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rave @ Nov 26 2008, 01:22 PM) [/quote] Wow. Could you do something for me, and redesign the other characters (Sonic, Tails and Knuckles) in a similar vein? For the purposes of concept work -- I'll explain when I have more time on my hands, but in a nutshell, I want to see some real experimentation with the general look of the characters before a final look is even decided on (As far as I know, it hasn't yet). Hell, I'll even do a few myself; the more the merrier. But yeah, this is fuckawesome.
<!--quoteo(post=250291:date=Nov 26 2008, 10:27 AM:name=Jayextee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jayextee @ Nov 26 2008, 10:27 AM) [/quote] Wow. Could you do something for me, and redesign the other characters (Sonic, Tails and Knuckles) in a similar vein? For the purposes of concept work -- I'll explain when I have more time on my hands, but in a nutshell, I want to see some real experimentation with the general look of the characters before a final look is even decided on (As far as I know, it hasn't yet). Hell, I'll even do a few myself; the more the merrier. But yeah, this is fuckawesome. [/quote] Oh wow, many thanks <3 I was actually trying to redesign Shadow in a similar way, make him look retro-ish and Shadow at the same time, but OK, I will redesign Sonic, Tails and Knuckles as well, if that's what you want <:
Okay, so not exactly like that, but to beat the game for Adventure 1, you still had to play as all the characters at least once. Same in Rush. I made a big mistake in saying "ALL", I admit. But I suggested this idea because I like the variety, of gameplay, and I sort of enjoyed the way it was in Adventure 2, so sue me. And as far as I know, Amy will only be a cameo, if that much (yay).
<!--quoteo(post=250290:date=Nov 26 2008, 04:22 PM:name=Rave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rave @ Nov 26 2008, 04:22 PM) Her spikes are roundish, which differs from Sonic, she has this side hair that looks like her new design. I re-did her clothes because her design had some god-awful colors that doesn't match at all. And I did some stylish boots for her. It looks retro-ish, good, and doesn't look so much like a Sonic recolor, right guys? ...Right? Note from STHX: YES, YOU'RE RIGHT Yes, yes, YES. This... This is it. This is what this project should be! Allow me to better explain. The bolded sentences in Rave's post should truly become a motto for this project. Modernize a character but still making him/her look retro. But this is not something that should be done only for the character. This is actually something that can be made for everything in this project. Because this should be the core of the project: Fuse classic and new, modern and retro, old-style and new-style. Sometimes I almost felt like if there was some kind of fear in proposing some concepts for this project. So I'm saying this now: In order to achieve our target we need to modernize, but still making it keep the retro feel, the old Sonic games formula. And I really can't wait to see how Sonic and the others will look. Also the first time I feel liking the idea odf putting Amy in the game.
Hi there. Good art or not, I'm still not seeing any aesthetic push to put Amy in the game. It has yet to be justified out of proving that, if done, we'd have a badass redesign for her. That's fine, but it's not really compelling outside of that.
I don't think this is a sign that Amy positivelydefinitelyshould be in the game; far from it. I've requested the confirmed characters to be done in this style because it's a nifty style, and the costume redesign shows a sort of experimentation that I feel absolutely should be a part of the development process. Why? Because even if we revert back to older designs, we tried alternatives. And who knows? A minor redesign of, say Knuckles, might turn out to be a favourite here at Retro, and it's a good way to put our personal stamp on the project. I'm actually inspired to put together some redesigns myself; not to be seen in any way as final designs, but something to consider, and if totally rejected an important part of the development process anyway.
