This leak from August 2018 seems to line up with what Frontiers turned out to be, so I figure that Kishimoto became director sometime before then, assuming of course that the titans were Kishimoto's idea.
HyperBE32 has released an "Enhanced Drop Dash" mod that adds a manual rolling function, plus a few other things. A few other interesting mod-related developments: Hedgemodmanager code to enable tighter jumping and Drop Dash turning A code to fix shadow stutter A code to properly angle and lengthen shadows depending on the angle of the sun and moon Object layout editing is now possible, thanks to a custom JSON format named HSON TONS of different physics and combat mods to experiment with It's interesting to see how large the modding scene for this game has become after only six (6) months of being released. Compare to something like Colors Ultimate, which is possibly more mod-friendly, getting almost no attention at all.
Is this drop dash mod compatible with physics mods or does the drop dash mod have it’s own physics that override anything else?
I think it’s a confluence of factors here. While Colours Ultimate is potentially very easily moddable, it ultimately doesn’t offer much beyond what Generations does, which already has a very established modding scene with specific tools and processes and better base game feel, making it a more appealing starting point. Meanwhile, Frontiers is new, shiny and works with a whole suite of mechanics and concepts that Sonic hasn’t done before and it seems like there’s some carry over from Generations/Forces modding due to being on HE2.
They're all me. Do you guys have any idea what these boss themes do to you while you're on a treadmill?!
Literally any of the boss tracks play while I'm doing my roadwork and suddenly all notions of pace and breath control go out the window and I start moving.
TelekinesticMan made a very good critique of this game. It's very negative so I know a lot of people here will disagree. He sums up a lot of the kind of complaints I've made about the game when it first came out. I hope many of these points become more common in discussion of this game online. Especially the stiffness of the movement, why the shallowness of the combat is a bad thing, the very poor difficulty balancing, and the fact the game's level design is in the same vein as Forces.
Just finished watching this video and yeah I almost entirely agree with what it's saying, but it also does feel like stuff that I've seen here and identified with previously. Granted, that doens't detract from the validity of his criticism whatsoever and I certainly found his section on the discourse surrounding the game informative and interesting, but I wouldn't necessarily label this as the Frontiers video that Retro needs to see (not that you necessarily were posting it under the guise, but I digress). I think discussion here has generally been very healthy and, sure, people have disagreed on a wide variety of topics, but I think it's for the most part been pretty civil. Hearing these complaints from a fresh perspective did get me back to thinking about the game, though. Ultimately I think Frontiers is a victim of its own ambition and perhaps scope creep. If we get an iterative sequel to Frontiers, I'd happily take something that's half the volume but packs two islands or even just one with meaningful content and organic level design. When this guy was alluding to Fortress and Squid while showing Utopia footage, what he was talking about clicked instantly and I would love something with such dynamism, and I've been a critic of Sonic's moveset both in and out of combat since release. I'm not a game developer so I can't with any reasonable confidence diagnose what precisely has gone wrong with Frontiers, what root causes need to be resolved, but I really hope that this game's success affords the circumstances for that to happen. For all the shit this community and others give them, Iizuka and Kishimoto clearly care so, so much about Sonic and I think they want the IP to be synonymous with quality just as much as we do. In the meantime, that Spark game he showed looks pretty dope...
Yeah it's definitely not revolutionary and the video Retro needs to see TM. But it is a very good summary of the game's failings in my opinion. Don't always agree with TelekinisticMan either. I certainly like Pontac and Graff more than him.
It's crazy because I agree with most of everything he said in that video (I didn't encounter near as many glitches and he did but that's definitely by luck) yet I still had a strange amount of fun with the game. Maybe it came down to the atmosphere of the islands (Kronos Movement 1 is one of my favorite tracks in the franchise now) and the GMod Custom Map Circa 2010 styled floating objects level design that scratched some weird itch. I don't know exactly... but with that being said, after the botched conclusion of Sonic's corruption plot line in the game I realized how little interested I had in finishing the game, because it felt like it was all for nothing. Even the "lore" half of the story feels so big in scope but the game doesn't feel like it compliments its scale properly. To me, Frontiers is a game that while in a different style than forces, still falters through some of the same filters that caused Forces to be so undercooked and bland. A bigger than life idea that is gold but is handled in a backseat view, like its just window dressing to what amounts to a lot of boosting from waypoint to waypoint broken up by random mini 'challenges' and average, but not bad, platforming. Very few moments does the game feel like you are effecting the overall story, only Island 4 (which was the highlight for me) really feels like you are personally doing something to effect what is going on. I know Sonic destroying the Titans technically pushes the story forward, but it's never given the weight it needs in my experience. Then again that's kinda been Sonic's motto for the 2010s (sans Sonic Mania, but I'd argue even that with its recycling stages dampens the game a bit these days for myself because the original ideas are just *that* good.) Not a terrible game, neither is Forces, but far from what they could have and should have been. Although with Frontiers being such a big success for Sonic Team regardless, I do have a slight sliver of hope that the next game in this style will fix at least some of the issues, because the idea is good, its the half-baked borderline rushed / unfinished execution that really is dragging down this game further since its release. Also can we *please* get better level designers, I know it's such a cold take but the level design in general is so bland and blocky and has been for years, this wasn't as bad as Forces (Casino Forest Classic is hard to beat for worst) but far from fresh. I know this isn't adding much to the conversation but yeah.
I agree entirely with the idea that the game is too easy and in many ways trivializes some aspects via the automation, but for some reason he equates "the game is too automated" with "the game sucks for allowing you freedom" in a way that sounds nonsensically and borderline nitpicky, especially when he compares it to DOOM (an entirely different game in a different genre with a different set of priorities than Frontiers) and Breath of the Wild (which is a game where you can absolutely do nothing and have nothing happen to you). I don't actually get what his point is there. Nothing else he says is unique or even particularly well-said; I've heard many of these critiques before (even echoed them myself) and things like what I described above makes it not well-said. It's a decent analysis.
Yeah, while I can agree with a lot of the critiques he presents, there are quite a few that I just don't understand the comparison and feel like stretches. He loses me especially with how long he spends on twitter fandom banter, which feels like an excuse to justify his distaste for frontiers, rather than saying anything of actual meaning. (Also, he seems to have had a WAY buggier experience than anything ive ever seen anyone go through, but I guess that is the potential woes of the pc version) My big issue with complaints regarding the level design of the bite sized pieces in the open zones is that, how much more complex can they be without being too intrusive? Chaos island has some of the more involved platforming, but most of it ends up being ryhthmic 2d, which most folks tend to agree is pace breaking. I do think more organic level design as part of the environment would go a long way, but if we have to have the level setpieces in the sky and such, I think they are handled pretty well, especially with just how *many* there are Not a bad video, but a lot of the stuff he beings up just didnt phase me, even if I can agree in a lot of areas that could be improved
I think I can explain the point TelekinesticMan was trying to make… in a slightly roundabout way: I love the genesis sonic games, because you have multiple different ways to approach the game. For instance in Sonic 3K: you can chose between 3 characters, you can speedrun levels, you could explore for special stage rings/bonus stage posts, you can do a high score run. On paper, 3K’s options sound similar to Frontiers’ options. However there’s a major difference: No matter what you do in 3K, your movement is effected by the terrain. This incentivizes the player to learn the game so they can maintain the speed that makes Sonic unique. Once players know the game’s mechanics (how sonic interacts with the level, how he gains speed from rolling down slopes) they are rewarded with the freedom to explore 3K’s options. In frontiers’ OPEN ZONE GAMEPLAY (not cyberspace or the boss fights) there is no core challenge players HAVE to confront to complete tasks. Players CAN gain speed down slopes but ONLY if u are boosting or dropdashing. If you don’t do these things, Frontiers will look like the bad IGN preview footage…but you can still go about your business. To be clear, I’m not complaining that the game didn’t go all in on momentum. It’s that the game doesn’t go all in on anything as most aspects of the open zone are like this. The issue isn’t that Frontiers has too much freedom. It’s that Frontiers’ freedom isn’t rewarding. This is why he compares Sonic to Doom and BOTW: in those games you have options but they require an understanding of the game’s core mechanics and/or creativity. In frontiers you have the option to chose between styles of automation. This does not mean Frontiers lacks fun, my experience with frontiers is more positive than TelekinesticMan’s, but it’s not a particularly deep experience… even when compared to other Sonic games.
I agree the open zones are just kind of there without much to do except unlock the map and getting from point A to point B. Not sure how you can have an open world Sonic without this happening. Haven’t played Zelda but in the GTA games you end up driving everywhere over and over without obstacles too. Unless you plow through and get in a chase. The world around you doesn’t matter much unless you get into a mission. I guess you can add better challenges but he can still run passed things. Ya the glitches are exaggerated or he actually is trying to trigger them. I feel this happened with 06. The glitches were exaggerated to the point it’s become a myth that it’s unplayable. The reuse of stages in Cyberspace don’t bother me. It’d be nice if they used more but that’s on purpose right? I thought they represented each character’s thoughts...Green Hill = Sonic, Chemical Plant = Tails, Sky Sanctuary = Knuckles. Not sure about the Street. I guess Eggman. It’s true than most of the combat can be done by spamming 1 move but each enemy behaves different enough that each is a different fight. These things don’t make it a bad game though. It’s just repetitive if anything.
Another thing I don't agree about his take is the idea that the IGN footage is an example of what the game looks "normally". Literally no one will play like the IGN footage because the player was clearly instructed to show off the game in a clunky, checklist fashion. They avoided enemies and did things slowly and less interestingly for the sake of showing off mechanics. They didn't play it like how the game is supposed to be played. Not like how a player would, not even the biggest Sonic noob. The regular player will engage and experiment as much as they like because the game allows it. I remember clear as day when reception of the game improved with literally any other footage that actually played the game like a player would. "Oh, I get the appeal now" People then actually played the game and turned around entirely. I don't Drop Dash much at all (I just don't think of it) and boosting is itself a fundamental part of the gameplay and unlike the boost games has no real impact over what Sonic does, so I play way better than the IGN footage "normally". I agree on the notion that Frontiers' automation gets in the way of the design, but it's in the case of it railroading you or taking control on a segment that is actually meant to test you. How the parry system is implemented is the most obvious example, no consequence for something clearly designed for consequence. But the basic getting around the open zone and interacting with basic objects, I don't think that applies; not his critique, anyway. Being able to play the game at your own pace is what I think the game does well in spades.
I 100% agree that the IGN footage is not how the game normally looks. I should have worded that better. My point is that you can go up and down slopes with zero speed gained or lost. This is indicative of my larger view of there being no inherent challenge. I appreciate your perspective on how players enjoy the option of playing at their own pace. My issue is that Frontiers does not take this idea far enough. I wouldn’t be opposed to needing to press a run button for momentum to take effect, if there were platforms/locations that could only be reached by taking advantage of momentum. This would allow new players to ease into Sonic while also appealing to veteran players. As is, I view this as a larger issue with the game where everything can be done differently without having to think creatively. I still had fun, I just think there’s a lot of untapped potential here. That said I’m all for letting other people fully enjoy the game, or enjoy the game for different reasons. Y’know the saying “different strokes for different folks”
I encountered a lot of bugs in this game, and I didn't play on PC. I would regularly clip through things or an automated sequence would somehow fail me. With the crappy cutscenes, pop-in, jank, and lack of polish, this game's presentation was pretty bad despite how cool it can be atmospherically. This was an incredibly mediocregame. It was fun as a cute little thing to mindlessly burn time with but I don't think any individual part of its game design was good. I think that all the criticism this game gets is very deserved, and find the high praise it gets to be very unwarranted.
I've only seen the clip about the "no punishment" thing and maybe I'll go for whole thing later but he really, really shouldn't have made the comparison to standing in front of an enemy in Doom because like yes that's going to happen when you specifically pull that example compared to standing in the middle of the Open Zone nowhere near enemies. But you can also stand in the middle of rooms in Doom nowhere near enemies / after you've killed them. There doesn't need to be a constant threat beyond "the player doesn't move forward."
