Sonic CD's Mysterious Cut R2 Level Discussion - Post Origins Edition

Assuming those two aren't mock-ups, as some companies were want to do back then, of course...

 

We do know at least that even if that Sonic 1 Special Stage picture is a mockup, it was shown off in motion at a toyshow in '92. In video form though so if not in a build then somewhere there was at one point video of it running.

 

Yes, and "What about me" by Haddaway is based on early R2 past music. But if somebody will say that isn't- he is a liar and troll. Don't trust him.

Not sure, that we'll get something from here, but anyway we still hasn't a lot of prototypes from v0.2 to 510, and if early special stages existed in summer of '92, we hasn't A LOT of protos..
..ofcource if early special stages isn't just a leftover from Sonic 1 CD port, but if even so, we has a lot of things, that we should find and research!

 

Is... is this bait? Please tell me this is bait.

 

What do you mean?
If about Nishimura- it was taken from one YT channel. Not my.

 

I kind of understand the stance, though I think it's a little misguided all the same. Nishimura-san is... I don't know he's probably in his 50s-60s, so I can understand that he may not exactly remember the full story and how much of Dubious Depths was worked on (it was thirty years ago after all). However, that doesn't mean he's misremembering everything related to it. He has a binder full of development documents that probably has things about Dubious Depths that we could over ever dream of getting at the moment, he's got the closest thing to the horse's mouth. Whether or not he's willing to give the people public viewing of these documents is up in the air at the moment, though we have seen one thing from this binder, so never say never.

 

Holy shit, can we stop talking about this one random dumbass YouTuber who managed to get banned from Hidden Palace AND Retro!?

 

Initially, I wondered why a nearly empty level, which uses Metropolis music and has no robots, appeared in magazines.

While a level with its own musical theme and specifically designed robots doesn't appear in any magazines.
Then, great people from Hidden Palace released a prototype of Sonic 3, dated November 1993. And it features Flying Battery.

There are many screenshots from that build in various magazines. But do you remember a single one with Flying Battery? Neither do I.
My point is: we don't know what is included in different yet uncovered and unseen versions of Sonic games.
It is highly possible there is a prototype (or prototypes) of Sonic CD from December 1992 – May 1993 featuring an early Sonic 1-looking special stage (or the one with balloons and mountains), Ridicule Root, Dubious Depths, Digital Audio Past tracks and so on.
The same way Sonic 3 proto had all those surprises: Drop Dash-like move, working Flying Battery, early sprites of Knuckles, different background in Hydro City, different music in Carnival Night, Ice Cap, Launch Base etc.

 

First I've heard - it's not on the wiki, do you have a source?

That screenshot came from a Japanese catalogue that we don't have full scans for.

 

I linked some sources prior to that post, both from Mazin and the Cutting Room Floor, neither said it was a mockup though. In fact, both sources imply it was once playable.

 

So you did, sorry. There's been so many massive images and drivel in the last few pages that it's become a tough topic to parse.

Not sure what "toy show" he's referring to - Sonic CD appeared at the '93 Tokyo Toy Show but that was in June 1993 - after our 510 prototype. '92 Tokyo Toy Show probably pre-dates the Sonic CD project.

Interesting...

 

I feel like the lack of screenshots of that particular level could be explained by Sega being slightly less generous with builds of the game during Sonic 3's development compared to 2. The 'Simon Wai' prototype of Sonic 2 also makes it absurdly easy to get to the Level Select. There was probably just a lot less regulation there.

I still find these threads rather fun in terms of generating discussion (as long as the 'speculation' doesn't eventually snowball into 'fact'), but I do also agree this is probably really 'it' in terms of information unless Sega updates the concept art section for Plus. Worst case scenario is that I can see the thread being re-opened if Plus drops and gives us anything new?

Taxman's words and lack of information makes me think DD died somewhere during the level landscape sketch phase, and sadly never really got 'implemented' in the way I think people want to see (including me!).

I'd adore more surfacing about the earlier Special Stages, and that seems a little more probable of surfacing given graphics were created for them?

 

It's been mentioned how someone should ask the developers some of these questions, but nobody seems willing, or they just haven't gotten answers. Let's pick our most pressing question and ask. I vote for the "was there an effort to port Sonic 1 to Mega CD" question. Then the obvious follow-up if we get the affirmative is if that's how Sonic CD came to be.

And then, of course, we need a brave soul to actually posit the question.

 

Okay I did some homework. There are at least two builds of the game that were demonstrated in some form, but we don't have:

(that is, builds we might actually be able to get, as opposed to internal prototypes updated nightly or whatever)

One is between the Yuusei Sega World build and 510.

I don't know if you'll necessarily see a special stage with balloons, but this shot is too rubbish to be a mockup. And to be fair five months is a big gap, so this shouldn't be too surprising.

The second is another build between the 510 and 621 prototypes. The build taken to the '93 Tokyo Toy Show doesn't match 510, but... the event happened before 621, so there must have been another. I can't imagine it'll be that interesting though.


As for anything earlier than our December 1992 "v0.02" build, it's possible, but I wouldn't go expecting something recognisable or playable, especially if we're talking June 1992 when the '92 Tokyo Toy Show occurred. Mockups and tech demos - there has to be time to learn how to use the hardware.

Footage from the '92 Tokyo Toy Show would be the best bet, however I think you're going to struggle to find anything Sonic related. The problem is, this was where Sonic 2 (the Nick Arcade build) was shown to the public, and like at Summer CES, visitors were under strict instructions not to photograph or film the game until its "official announcement". No casual viewer is going to distinguish between "game they haven't seen before" Sonic 2 and "game they haven't seen before" Sonic CD.

(no I don't know why they took Sonic 2 to two separate events and discouraged people from talking about it. I can only assume it's because the Nick Arcade build kinda sucks and it's more about pleasing investors. Dunno.)

Ayrton Senna's Super Monaco GP II seems to have been the stand-out title and is probably the game you're going to see more of. What I do know is there is plenty of supplemental Tokyo Toy Show material that hasn't been scanned or documented, and Japanese television is woefully underrepresented on YouTube and the like - the evidence will exist, but you'll really have to dig to find it.

 

I’ve spoken to a lot of devs, people from Sega, etc. before, and can speak Japanese well enough, so I wouldn’t mind doing it.

Do we have a comprehensive list of Sonic CD people’s Twitters whom we should contact? There’s Majin, Ōshima, and…?

Edit: @HEDGESMFG ninja’d his way in just before. I don’t use Twitter much so I only see the individuals whose accounts get posted here. I’m connected to a few others like Hoshino on LinkedIn, I don’t want to bother people there. Ōshima’s probably the best to start with, but after him Majin, and who else?

Also edit: I accidentally included someone who wasn’t a dev.