My reason for of picking S4 is that game at least flows and has consistency. Its not good by any means, but I at least 'get' how S4 works. At its best, S4 is mediocre. And at its worst... Well aside from the mobile exclusive levels, it's tolerable. Cyberspace on the other hand is consistently a turn off. Every time that I play one of those levels, I feel like I'm fighting Sonic just to make him move purposely. He's slow as molasses in 2D, and somehow both twitchy and unresponsive in 3D at the same time. I don't get it. The sense of any flow or rhythm too is just busted by the way that he doesn't carry any momentum in the air and stops instantly when you let go of the analogue stick (or the opposite if rolling...). Everything that I ever criticised S4's controls and physics for is amplified in Cyberspace. Sonic 4 has a crappy and unwanted homing attack? At least the game doesn't pause for half a second every time you hit an enemy with it. I'll never, ever defend the horrible mess that Sonic 4 is, but imo it's just the lesser of two evils when compared to Cyberspace.
I literally said they're both fine writers but what they're writing doesn't sync up in a way that it probably really should have. As far as what I mean by "consistent": it's all characterization. JP script is trying to be consistent with the characterization that they've always had in some capacity, Ian's is trying to be consistent with what Ian thinks the characters should be which is influenced heavily by his work on Archie which has carried over into his work and external media since.
Add me to the Sonic 4 > Cyberspace group, a few of the Cyberspace levels are fun but not fun enough to tolerate the horrendous 2D and painfully slow 3D. Sonic 4 ep 1 was largely a tolerable ok experience for me aside from that one awful gimmick act in the mobile version
I think the poor movement controls situation is basically the opposite extreme of how slippery Sonic Unleashed and Generations platforming felt. I think Adventure 1/2 got it pretty spot-on for basic jumping, really. Also, note that in 2D mode since Unleashed, Sonic always moved more slowly. They probably goofed up the configuration over the years. I think they really ought to start with a new movement engine again and build levels around it instead of forcing a new world style onto old (tweaked) gameplay, but maybe it’s too late if Frontiers is a “foundation.”
Call me crazy but + - Sonic 4 has far better physics as a classic game than Frontiers. The slope physics and rolling mechanics are atrocious in Frontiers.
I feel like I'm the only one on this website who thoroughly enjoyed Cyberspace, lmao. I find the levels super fun to speedrun and while I didn't like the controls at first I quickly got used to them and I actually liked them quite a bit after getting used to them. Feels precise, like I always know exactly where Sonic is going to go no matter what, which is something I can't say about most games in this franchise. In fact, whenever I test out mods or anything, Cyberspace is usually the first thing I do when I boot up the game via Arcade Mode! I can happily say I enjoyed Cyberspace almost, if not equally as much as the Open Zone. I'd take it over Sonic 4 any day.
As long as we're talking about Cyber Space specifically, I generally agree. I had a very unpleasant time playing those, and while in them was frequently thinking that I'd rather be playing Sonic Forces. I'd rather play just about any other 2D Sonic gameplay than the Cyber Space stages, including.... ...Sonic 4. Easily. But in the Open Zone? I know you've balked at the idea of having to fix Sonic Team's problems, or whatever, but I saw multiple people suggest putting all sliders to the right, before the game even came out. I did just that when I first started up the game, and the 2D sections there (annoying as it was that they were a thing at all), didn't make me feel in the slightest like I'd literally rather be playing Sonic Forces (or Sonic 4). Unlike Sonic 4, though, where the miserable 2D gameplay is the game, Sonic Team gave the player the freedom to skip most of the Cyber Space stages. So I don't really find the disparity in reception that scandalous. In future playthroughs of this, I'm absolutely going to take full advantage of Sonic Team's offer to let me opt out of the murder they would have otherwise been trying to get away with.
the draw distance is something I would legitimately install a mod for before I'd finish the game. looking for how I get places is fine but the low draw distance makes it more difficult than it should be. cyberspace has the better music, easy choice also, most of the cyberspace levels can be done in a minute or less, which would make it a shorter experience if you really hate it.
I can't be the only one who likes the 2d cyber space controls? Right? Like I'm legitimately not seeing people's complaints. The only one I really have is the jump being a bit stiff, which I got used to. But I'd way rather play this than Sonic 4.
Here's something pretty interesting, a person on twitter shared a video of Sonic 1's rolling physics with Morio Kishimoto and actually got a response from him acknowledging that it would be a cool idea to include rolling in the open-zone https://twitter.com/moq_46/status/1599759389325692928?s=46&t=H4TEVFdLc9dNez0JUrxp3g make of that what you will lol
I abhorred Cyber Space for most of my first playthrough, before it became isolated to specific levels being a pain. Now I just play with the Improved Physics mod, and while some stuff gets jank (ie. Sky Rail recreation), it's a hell of a lot more fun. I actually want to 100% all the stages now, instead of just doing it out of completionist obligation like my first run.
I quite enjoyed Cyberspace myself. Recontextualizing the stages as speedrun challenges actually made them more fun for me than their original incarnations. My initial runs I'd go for the red rings then I'd blast through them on the second run. Either Run would fulfill the other requirements. ...I will never do 1-2 again though.
Obviously I'm not taking this as a definite 'Yes!' but this has my attention. I can't help but wonder what they'll iterate upon and what they'll toss out for the next Sonic game since it's obviously gonna build upon Frontiers.
here's another one of Kishimoto responding to a fan who showed concept art of Sonic 2. Kishimoto says that seeing these illustrations is "very inspiring" https://twitter.com/moq_46/status/1599743031573630976?s=46&t=VsDTmSMuCRBjNN0jDecM7w nice to see him respond to feedback like this, I hope it leads to good things
All I can ask of everyone here is that if you have a Twitter, reply with utmost enthusiasm. If they're willing to listen, we gotta let it be heard! Him noticing and being open to bringing back rolling physics is big! Really big! And this is our most transparent chance to advocate a change in these games. Shoot the shot, guys. Spoiler And if they don't do it next game, we can finally accept that they "know" why people liked the original Sonic games and actively don't want to do it. We can finally move on, lol.
I don't want to be the party pooper, but I do think they know but just don't care. Remember when he said this during a Forces interview? I know that this doesn't exactly correlate with what's he's saying on Twitter, and it doesn't shut down the possibility that they will bring rolling physics and take cues from the Classic games. But I've never been a believer that they're not aware that there's a big demand for this and are not doing because they don't know.
Has anyone else noticed Frontiers is leading the votes for Player's Voice in The Game Awards this year?
I understand, but my greater point is that we finally have a chance to point out how important it is to us. They may have never understood how much it does before this point; had they known we probably would've had them try harder! lol No better time than now. Either we Sonic fans can continue to be sad/upset on our message boards that they don't revisit the concepts we love while they go without knowing it's worth to us, or we make it loud and clear in the most direct way we've ever had. If 2000s Sonic fans could make it known we needed better characterization and a change in tone, we can do this too. And again, if they don't do it, we can accept it and move on with our lives, at least on this subject haha.
I have for a while and I'm very annoyed that I can't vote since the vote button is apparently messed up on Chrome
