True, Mephiles wasn't a part of the story like say, Erazor Djinn, but note that a lot of crossover titles aren't considered main Sonic canon. Mario & Sonic. Sonic & Sega All Star Racers. I think being that Runners had Mephiles as a playable character and crossed over with Puyo Puyo that it might lump it in together with that as a cameo title. Along with being a discontinued title as well too, yes. I also wonder if Speed Battle is lumped under the crossover line too with the movie tie-ins. Certainly could use some room for clarification. I also hardly doubt any of the old Java or Sonic Cafe games are canon due to both obscurity and lack of availability.
The difference there is that you can still track them down, and can play them, as well as the option for collections like Sonic Mega Collection and Sonic Gems Collection. Most likely, it's considered in the same vein as the multitude of other mobile titles, like Sonic Dash, Sonic Jump, Sonic Unleashed (Mobile), etc.
I don’t think the comparisons are valid. The All-star games have no story, so there’s nothing to include in the canon. In Mario & Sonic, the story revolves around the crossover. It’s also written as if Mario, Sonic and our Earth have always been a single combined world, which breaks continuity with past Sonic games. In Runners, the crossover was a special event that last a few weeks. The whole Runners story didn’t revolve around the crossover, like it does in Mario & Sonic. It also explains how the Puyo enter Sonic’s world, so nothing is broken with past games. Mania, by contrast, has the Puyo without any in-game explanation. Sega Sonic Arcade is not officially available. Yet the game is deemed canon. Even Gems Collection… You might track down a GameCube disc. But it won’t run on any modern console. You’d need to buy an old GameCube/Wii and then an unofficial HDMI adaptor, as the old Scart/AV connectors are unsupported on many modern TVs (I don’t follow Sony, but I think it’s a similar situation for the PS2 disc). The same applies to many handheld Sonic titles, you need to find the cart and then an old console to play it on. It is factually true to state that one can track down these old games. But that misses that many of these old games have been officially withdrawn for sale by Sega and in that respect aren’t different to Runners. The fact that you can track down second hand copies of old games and jump through lots of hoops to play them seems like splitting hairs (especially as it takes fewer hoops to see the Runners story again). So if this is indeed Sega’s reasoning for making Runners non-canon, then it is a dumb one.
I think there was plans to include it on Sonic Gems Collection, but had difficulty translating the trackball, so it's not outside the realm of possibility we might be able to get it in a collection one day. Or track down Sonic Adventure DX on Nintendo Gamecube or Sonic Mega Collection Plus/Sonic Gems Collection and play them on that. One must ponder if they might actually do a "Sonic Everything Else Classic Collection" I snarked about a while ago, though I doubt they'll get Taxman'd and animated cutscenes paired with them all.
Well, I was thinking about the Nintendo handheld games. Most of those Sonic games aren't available on modern consoles, save for a few exceptions that made it to WiiU (which isn't really a modern console). And like I said, Gems Collection requires a lot of hoops, although at least SADX on PC gives access to the GG titles without needing to buy old hardware. That's coming up to 20 years ago! I honestly think there's more chance of Runners being re-released than Sonic Arcade (especially as Runners code base is more port friendly), although I think the chances of either is pretty slight.
Yeah I don't think mobile games should be looked down upon. But Flynn has said before the Sonic mobile games are not canon.
Mobile games in general shouldn’t be looked down upon out of hand, but as far as Sonic’s concerned they’re clearly a lower grade and I can see why they’re not important to the canon.
Out of interest, does anyone know: Did Ian say mobile games are not canon. Or did he specifically say Runners is not canon? Saying mobile games are not canon makes sense, because most of them don’t have a story. I think it's only Runners & the OG Sonic Jump that has story (maybe one or two of the Japanese-only Cafe games had a story as well). The rest either have no story or just have the generic "Stop Eggman's plot" with no ending to them, so they have nothing to include in the canon. (Some of the collab/crossover games have stories, but I think they are in the same boat as the Mario & Sonic series) If you are talking about Sonic mobile games in general, that's fair. However, Runners has a lengthy story consisting of several story arcs. It explains why Knuckles doesn't spend all his time with the Master Emerald, why the wisps/Deadly six are still around, and why penguins can fly (which is either a mighty coincidence or a deep cut to Sonic CD). It explores the world of the animal friends, showcasing how they live and even puts the spotlight on some of their parents/partners. The story telling is aimed at young kids, so it's simplistic in its nature, but it's a much higher grade of story telling than anything we've had from the Pontac/Graff main line games. Even OG Sonic Jump has a more fleshed out story than most recent main line games.
He said mobile games are not canon multiple times. He said Runners is not canon recently which is why this discussion started.
It's very much understandable the mobile games being non canon, but Runners was always a question mark, at least for the story mode. Well, now we know.
Thanks! Here's the episode, in case anyone wants to hear it. It's at the 1:23:45 mark. Well, for now. Sonic Team has a habit of flip-flopping. Chaotix, Rivals and the Game Gear games were seemingly deemed non-canon at some points, but seem to be back in. And then classic Sonic has switched from being in a different time, to a different dimension to seemingly being in the past again. In many ways, canon is meaningless because Sonic Team is always changing their definition. Given that Runners clears up loose ends, I wouldn't be surprised to see it back at some point.
If SEGA decided to do something that could set a continuity without being specifically through the games, it might help. I'd rather have a new anime, more focused on adapting games as faithfully as possible while setting a proper continuity. There's also the alternative of the IDW comics, but I'm not seeing them stopping progressing its story to start all anew. Setting a continuity through the games is a wild card, a can of worms that may never see a resolution from SEGA's side.
Nope, that won't clear anything at all. People will keep complaining and yearning for clarification. Unless it gets properly resolved, it'll never end.
And they've cleared it all up now, by rewriting stories completely and dumping the games wherever for plots to later be made up? Honestly, I was one of the people who was complaining, and goddamn do I regret that immensely.
SEGA is one of those who give little relevance to a story's proper continuity. Whatever keeps the boat going seems good enough for them, no need for them to give it much heed. That's the problem, and why I presented that suggestion. They'd give fans eager for continuity what they wished (potentially). And that way they could go on with the games however they wanted.
I would very much disagree with "no need to give it much heed", but this isn't the Unpopular Sonic Opinions thread, so...
That "no need to give it much heed" was from SEGA's side, in my opinion ^^" I edited the post to better reflect my opinion, in case of misunderstandings.
I would still buy the "there were multiple timelines/universes that meshed together for some reason and now there's this one timeline" explanation.
