The way sonic teleports to kick looks so unfinished, the camera jumps in way that makes it look like it's glitching out and trying to find where he is lol. This jank seems present in pretty much all of his moves. Something that can be easily fixed, of course. Although I doubt it will be. The whole automation thing is still my biggest concern with the game. In the cyberspace levels it is a problem but particularly in the open world. Pressing the jump button every now and again isn't a fun way to travel in what's supposed to be an open world zone. With all my negativity I will say I think the game looks pretty nice visually and it does look like some fun could be had despite the problems I think it could have from the footage we have seen so far.
Yea, the existence of an entirely different axis does inherently change the way Sonic interacts with the environment And yes, I do admit that some fighting games require a lot of work. I didn't mean to imply that anyone who doesn't put in the work shouldn't play. I'm all in favor of making games way more accessible for more people to play and better tutorials; I just feel like often that comes with the consequence of lowering the depth in some games for one. It might be a generational thing too. I remember there were similar reactions to Guilty Gear after Accent Core when it went to Xrd, and then from that to Strive.
Oh yeah, that attack is the inspiration from Sonic Movie they were talking about: https://twitter.com/OnTheDownLoTho/status/1564679320605540358?s=20&t=0K-IQtc-i4zNmvig5FOblA
In regards to combat in this game, I hope this is just another experimental thing that doesn't go anywhere like Unleashed's Werehog sections.
Everyone complaining about rails and “pre-set” paths in the open zone/world do not realize if the 3D stages from other games were open like this the rails and jump pads would seem strewn about too. If you configure them into an open zone all the rails and pads are gonna seem incoherent because it’s not point A to point B. They’re gonna come off as...just there. I’m sure the open zones will be be like playgrounds where you can mix it up or run if you want. Of course you need to use them to progress but I meant as in traveling or just for fun.
The complaint is not that the objects are arranged in a way that connect to each other, it's that without them, the world (well, what we've seen of Kronos at least) is mostly geometric hills without a lot of natural, flowing terrain for Sonic to travel through. Look, here's a new screenshot. See how almost everything here is wall-run walls and springs and homing attack balloons? Yes, it looks like an actual level piece that you run through, but it's completely disconnected from the island itself, when this could have been something more-naturally built into the world. For a game where the devs claim that the hub worlds are also the normal levels that you run through, it sure seems like you can just sort of...run around the level design if you want. I understand this criticism, though personally my worry is more of whether the game's design in either the open-world or the cyber levels will actually use Sonic's mobility to its fullest extent. Lost World suffered from this, where Sonic has a bunch of moves, but you may not even notice half of them because the game so rarely (if ever, looking at you short-hop air-dash) uses them in its level design. The 3DS version did more, but...ugh, that game.
Ya you can “run around” the level design because it’s Open 3D. How do you fit it so you can’t go around it? It would not be Open then. Just always pick the more fun way to travel I guess.
Well, that's kind of the innate issue with trying to make an open-world Sonic game. I never wanted one, even if I like a lot of what Frontiers is doing. But that said, I don't think that a game has to be so broad as to make any challenge effectively-optional to still have depth to its world. Dark Souls is a good example. Most Dark Souls areas have a flow and direction to their level design, but the games still have a lot of depth, because the interconnected world allows you to tackle different pieces of it in whatever order you feel like (mostly). Elden Ring is considered "the true open-world Dark Souls" while the other games are considered more like Metroidvanias, but I don't think an open world is defined by big fields where you only do stuff if you really have to. But again, I don't know exactly what does define an open world.
Ive never played those games but I understand what you mean. I guess it just depends on the style of gameplay. Sonic is about zipping around on ramps, rails and pads so they have to be there one way or another. I personally love the idea of open world Sonic. I think Frontiers will be a lot of fun. I don’t think it’ll be so open that entire sections are optional. I’m sure all the set pieces will matter and make sense once we actually play it.
Elden Ring would be a better example as that game is full of very carefully crafted levels that are organically slotted into the open world, yet clearly are designed to funnel players naturally down designed paths. I could easily imagine an open-world Sonic game where, say, an Eggman base is rooted into the environment much like Stormveil Castle, and there's a few routes to get in that lead down what is effectively a linear platforming level with multiple routes to some kind of important location in the base. ...which makes what we're getting here even more limp, because the potential is RIGHT there! Discovering an Hydrocity-esque ancient aquatic cavern, scaling in and around a Lava Reef-style volcano, crashing into a Studiopolis/Speed Highway-esque expanse of skyscrapers so high off the ground that its streets are a deathpit...
That's the thing though; it's not. I mean, ramps as a natural part of the environment, maybe. But springs and dash panels and rails are used sparingly in good Sonic level design. In the classic games, springs were on thing that closed the gap between pathways with a lot of vertical distance separating them, or were used to cross chasms or potentially even use Sonic's speed to take shortcuts. That's why you didn't see as many on higher paths. But in modern Sonic, springs are just as scripted as anything else. You could have Sonic just run on air for most of these. Again, I don't really care as long as the game provides me the opportunity to have fun otherwise, but I get the criticism of automated designs. I'm only going off the fact that the devs have called various parts of the game "optional" at one point or another. That probably means optional in isolation, where you still have to do something but the game doesn't decide which for you, but we can't know for certain. I specifically didn't use Elden Ring as an example, both because it was in development for like seven years and because you totally can just run past everything. A lot of the open fields with enemies scattered here or there in that game is pretty similar to what we've all seen in BOTW game #7, not especially interesting to me. I liked it a lot, but Elden Ring embodied a lot of the extreme broadness I'm talking about, and it made it way easier than any previous FS game (except maybe Demon's Souls, but that was when they were still figuring out the formula). The Dark Souls games (and possibly Bloodborne, though it's trapped on the PS4 so I can't play it) are much better-balanced between being open, but still directed most of the time.
https://twitter.com/Ruki185/status/1564706823927627776?t=1Ij1BDfDpzSFl-J50-zoJQ&s=19 Thought this thread was interesting. I really didn't like Forces from the first moment I saw it, so I can't really relate, but it's interesting seeing the comparison being made here for people who were excited for Forces and got let down. Especially because I've seen the "well people were excited for Forces and look what happened" conversation come up a few times, I guess the context kinda matters here. Game could still suck obviously, but hey.
It's never not a little strange just how many people seem to count Forces as their first Sonic heartbreak, haha. Mine was Heroes! Like I said earlier, most of us here were just cautiously optimistic, at best. There were SO many red flags with it. But I remember in places like Twitter and Reddit and the like, people were SO hyped, and they'd get mad at you if you dared to criticize it. xD
Don't get the hate for Forces, it wasn't a bad game at all, it was just the levels were so easy and quick to finish and the boost levels just too short and a massive setdown, from those in Gen. I still enjoyed the game mind. I liked Sonic Heroes, but it felt more like a spin-off game to me, rather than a mainline Sonic entry it was. Also, didn't like the graphics used on the main characters, they had a horrible sheen polished look, it looked all so fake to me (if that makes any sense) My issue with 3D Sonic's started with Sonic Adv 2 with the Sonic team thinking every new Sonic team much have all these new playable characters, when I just wanted the game and its levels to based all around Sonic, like Sonic 1, 2 Sonic DC. I've no interest in playing as other characters myself, or if you must... make it a choice, like with Sonic Adv. I'm really like what I'm seeing with Sonic Frontiers though, from the focus on Sonic, to the look of the art style and the freedom of gameplay, other than seeing some bugs now and again. I'm hoping that's just a demo build and it will be fixed come 2 months' time .
I feel that the open world feels a bit disjointed? I mean it feels like the islands themseleves are fine but there's just platforms and springs seemengly thrown at random like others said. At least the cybrespace levels look interesting, the fact that they mix levels seems cool.
It's hard to judge given it's just demo's of showing different parts of the game. Hopefully, it make more sense in the full game
I never hesitate to bring up that I was a dumb teenager when Forces was coming out, and my arguments with people ranged from merely passive-aggressive to terms of service-breaking. When the game came out...it was okay. I'm not sure if I really thought it would be amazing or I was just annoyed that people kept comparing it to games I fucking hated, but my only case of "Sonic Heartbreak" was with Lost World 3D, since I either knew going in whether other Sonic games would be good due to years of forum'ing or didn't end up disliking them. I guess some of the Sonic games I didn't get around to until recently have surprised me with their badness, but none of it made me particularly upset since there was usually a reason I hadn't bothered yet.
Honestly the issue with Forces isn't that it was bad, it's that it was mediocre when the fans had been led to expect so much more from it. What should've been the pinnacle of the boost formula ended up being a huge backslide from Generations that stretched itself thin trying to cater to everyone with a horribly mismanaged development cycle and ended up failing to please anyone. It's aggressively whelming and I have no real reason to reply base Forces when I could play Generations or Rush or Mania or either version of Colours, which execute and expand upon each of Forces' individual parts in a much more satisfying manner.
I don't vibe with the designs of the elders but I do appreciate the novelty of using moss as facial hair for stone creatures, I think that's very creative.
